Ughh why are so many people obsessed with the Civic? I agree with the Grand Tour cast, its ugly AF especially the rear end.
People are obsessed with the CTR because of what it is not what it looks like.
It’s a 4 cylinder front wheel drive car…come on. The fact it’s ugly AF doesn’t help.
Who designs a front wheel drive car for performance anyways? You’re fighting against physics.
Um…Honda, Renault, Peugeot, Ford, Nissan, etc.
As for physics, what is FWD fighting against specifically?
Every car you listed either has their fastest models as RWD or AWD.
What physics? The quicker you accelerate, the more your weight wants to shift to the rear. This means greater traction for RWD over FWD. Noticeable on straights and bends. FWD cars are splitting traction between acceleration and turning which leads to understeer.
Faster and much more expensive.
As for the physics, in basic terms a FWD car does understeer if driven to the limit, just like a RWD or AWD car. All cars can oversteer as well. FWD cars don’t just understeer. Sure getting the power down can be a slight challenge in a FWD car exiting a corner, but once you find the right line, it is actually quite easy, even in a 300hp car. Today’s performance FWD cars usually don’t understeer that much due to aggressive suspension, electronic LSDs, and beefy tires. 15 years ago a 300hp FWD car would definitely struggle to put down 300hp, but today it isn’t that hard. A FWD car on a straight will not have any problem getting the power down above 40mph. Even the CTR with 300hp will not have a problem putting it down in a straight line. I mean the Focus RS didn’t have a problem and that car was much worse.
I believe he speaks of the “push (RWD) versus pull (FWD)” physics relevant to straight line racing only. The common defense of many drag racing muscle heads. Go fast in a straight line but can’t turn worth a damn.
It’s not just a straight line. There’s a reason all supercars and high end sports cars are rwd or awd. A big reason is traction. Not only for straights but around bends. This isn’t some new thing. Everyone should know this.
When you accelerate quickly you get pushed back in your seat. That is physics at work. With a RWD you’re letting the physics do the work for you. With FWD youre fighting against physics.
Not at all. A RWD may have a slight advantage from rest but once on the move FWD cars with a similar BHP to the R will have similar traction. Although weight does shift rearward under acceleration the FWDs have more weight over the driven wheels. Where FWDs have the advantage is being able to correct understeer and oversteer with more power. In a RWD you have to ease off.
At this 200 to 300BHP range both drivelines have merits and a well sorted car is a well sorted car.
Much over 300 and it’s simply not possible to get a transaxle to handle what’s being asked of it not to mention a FWD needs a compact transversely mounted engine.
Anyway, everyone should embrace the R. In a few years we’ll all be driving rechargeable wheely bins.
Supercars and high end sportscars are RWD because they usually have MUCH more power, and are MUCH more expensive. So it really isn’t that much of an argument. A 300hp FWD car like the CTR really doesn’t have traction issues, unless it is stopped, due to modern suspension, modern tires, modern limited slips diffs, and modern chassis design. If we are talking about a modified FWD car from the 90s, then you might have a point about fighting against physics because the largest tire you could put on a ITR was a 225 without rubbing. The CTR starts out at 245s and can easily go to 265s if needed, but the CTR with how it is made really doesn’t have issues getting the power down even in a corner. The CTR actually has more oversteer if driven correctly than understeer, but what do I know about cars? I have only driven AWD and FWD cars in my life on the track. The 2003 WRX had more understeer than the 2005 SRT4 ACR I have driven. But yeah, I don’t know everything about FWD cars.
I am not saying FWD is better, never have. Just saying it is possible to make a great FWD sportscar like the CTR and actually is probably the best/fastest trackday car for under $40k.
These are honestly such over-simplified generalizations of physics that I cannot even find a starting point as to where to begin explaining the multitude of factors involved in this argument. And so with that in mind, I will let you figure this out on your own and/or let you drown in your misconceptions. I know where the truth lies with regard to this in its real-world applications having experienced all three (FWD, RWD and AWD) in my 20+ years of experience in daily driven and race scenarios. But I digress, as many keyboard warriors in forums are overnight Google experts in topics ranging from vehicle dynamics to physics, often with zero real-world experience.
You literally said a who bunch of nothing, then said "trust me, I’ve driven all three. Congrats. I learned on AWD car. My second car was FWD. My current car is RWD.
You simply can’t put the power of my car on a FWD…it would be a mess…and there’s a reason for that.
Look no further than the Nissan gtr lm nismo and how it’s discontinued and no other cars want to go with FWD.
It’s not that a fwd car can’t be fast, it’s that you have to put so much work into it to get it to be as fast. May as well just make it RWD or AWD at that point.
Ehh, I’m pretty sure the majority of CTR fanboys are mostly obsessed with what it looks like.
No sensible person would buy the R for it’s performance, as there are way better cars in it’s price range, and frankly, nobody wants a FWD sports car. Most buyers will get it for the badge and because they are deluded Honda loyalists.
I owned a 6th Gen Toyota Celica for a number of years. One of the most fun cars I’ve driven. I’d happily have another one.
The fact that you say fanboys in your post immediately makes your hole post stink of ignorance. As for your argument, what are the better cars in the price range? Also if people didn’t want a FWD “sportscar”, then why do so many people buy the Focus ST, Fiesta ST, VW Golf GTi, etc.? As for the badge, I know many people who have a CTR and never owned a Honda before. It is almost like you don’t know anything you are talking about, but you must have an opinion on it.
And what it is these days is a generic inline 4 turbo hot hatch with an extremely busy design, complete with fake rear bumper vents.
Of course, it’s always nice to see Honda’s take on the concept, but we already have the 2016 car for that. I will say that I would prefer a supercar instead of the Civic (or, better yet, the Golf GTI Clubsport, as we need a modern GTI). In the E3 it was said that this game would have the most Lamborghinis of any game in the market and all we got so far was the exact same cars as in Horizon 3. A Countach LP400, AWD Diablo or even a 350GT would be nice.
We haven’t got any Ferraris in the DLC yet, either, and there are plenty they could add, such as 308 GTS Quattrovalvole, 275 GTB/4, 512 prototype, 456 GT, the new 812 Superfast, and maybe even last year’s F1 car…
The Civic would sell plenty of Car Passes for them, though.
LMAO! Sure, agree with three out of touch middle-aged men whose content majority involves driving and providing commentary for cars that are out of reach for 99% of the human population. I love the Grand Tour but no way in hell would I use their opinions in buying my cars. The last thing on my mind when buying a car is what Clarkson, May and Hammond have to say about it.
Fanboy alert. I didnt say I use their opinions on buying cars, in fact I disagree with a lot of what they say but on that particular opinion I agree with. It looks like a generic kids ‘fast car’ toy with a try-me button to hear it rev and light up. Again just my opinion, but as usual the thread devolves into a fanboy vs everyone else argument because fanboys feel the need to justify their purchase, even though no one cares. Everyone can drive or idolise what they want, doesn’t make it immune to criticism,
Yes. You are right. I am a Honda fan because I know what I am talking about when it comes to Hondas. You lambaste a vehicle because of how a car looks or question why “people are obsessed with the Civic” simply because you clearly are not? Each car has its merits. Try and say it with me, “Each, car, has, its, merits.” And in that fashion, I am also a fan of BMW, Nissan, Infiniti, Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari, McLaren and I know quite a bit about those too! Heck, I am just a car fanatic in general and can appreciate all makes and models. Come to think of it, I know quite a bit about the entire topic in general. Feel free to find a rebuttal. I would love to debate all types of cars and “lambaste” your supposed “non-fanboy opinions” to no end.