Hodor 
Now Thank you SPO1LED JAM1E, Shay Feral, Clairvoyantwolf, and Dribbly Midget. Right now I think you are pretty much only ones that have the same point as I do.
That’s why I made this thread, To get some understanding, But seems like it’s like trying to fight a lost cause. Sigh
HLR Toffo requested that I would post these here, as his claim was “you cant make them handle” I claim othervice, Although I’m not saying it would be “done in 2 hours”
American Aston Martin? '66 Malibu: /BIG MUSCLE - YouTube (Muscle car)
- YouTube (Actually pony car)
1968 Camaro - Blu Balz 2.0 - /BIG MUSCLE - YouTube (Actually pony car)
Carb'd 461 Big Block - 1965 Oldsmobile - /BIG MUSCLE - YouTube (Muscle)
Not actual spec racing… just guys with tuned rides.
- YouTube- YouTubeOkay, They don’t always winR U Faster Than A Redneck - Featuring SSP Nissan GTR - YouTube here we have small accident, and for those who want to know, “Rednecks” payed the damage on the BMWThanks for the vids juggernaut. I like vids.
Dont take the dicussion personal with my opion. There is no point in having a discussion if everyone agrees with one another. Or asking a question if you know the answer
I have a neighbor who was more impressed with an Audi A7 than a Dodge Challenger. I don’t understand this but it is a personal preference. People have different tastes. This Audi guy likes to drive around with every single creature comfort in the world. Lumbar support, climate controlled seats, a tea-maker, a blah blah blah. Some people like that but I don’t, I just wanna go fast. Oh well, different strokes for different folks.
Exactly, and no one can really have a discussion unless they say WHY they think car A is better than car B. There really is no standardized metric. And no one can read your mind to understand the reason behind your personal opinion. It must be stated.
You could if you were clairvoyant. Lol
An unstoppable force meets an immoveable object. Even my powers are no match against the illogic of the internet 
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Of course muscle cars suck, objectively.
But that doesn’t stop me or anyone else liking them. There’s this thing called personality- it’s the same thing that gets people to buy inferior hardware, aka Xbox One, rather than PS4. As Clarkson likes to put it, “the X factor”.
For what I like in a car, Italian (but not supercars, I’m talking Lancias and Fiats) and British cars do it for me.
…Compared to what in what way? What’s the higher performing vehicle? A Mack truck or a Ferrari?
The key word here is “objectively”, as in “given the right context”.
Musclecars suck, compared to the Space Shuttle, when asking “what vehicle is better for achieving a stable, low-earth orbit?”
Musclecars suck, compared to a Tiger 1 Tank, when asking “what vehicle can better survive a hit from an M10 Wolverine?”
Musclecars suck, compared to buses, when asking “which vehicle has more seating?”
I could go on, but I won’t: y’all get my point I hope.
Someone gets it
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Well that’s a bold statement buddy, I don’t think there is anything inferior about muscle cars what-so-ever. It will kick the crap outta your Fiat Abarth on a straight line and more people will stop and stare at a cool muscle-car than your little Lancia Integrale, truth be told most won’t even know what it is. Not to mention that for a working-class bang for your buck, these cars are the best they come. You can get powerful muscle-cars for 40K-50K Therefore I just named three areas where a muscle car is better. Let’s recap:
More Stare-Factor
Straight line-speed
Bang for your buck
So, tell me again how muscle-cars are so inferior.
Slow down cowboy, did you lose your Copenhagen or something? No need to be upset.
For being a drivers car, not a showboating drag racer, muscle cars suck. And always will. Having a car thats good and rewarding to drive is the most important. IMO.
Opinions will be opinions and I can live with that. For both of us. So chill out sweetheart
The fact that you’re making this statement reveals that you’ve never drive a real muscle car in your life, by “real muscle car” I’m not talking about a 80’s Camaro or anything new. No, try something along the lines of a second generation Chevelle, or a third generation Dodge Charger. True, many don’t have any amenities beyond air conditioning and some didn’t even have that. But there is nothing more rewarding than driving a car that has a ride comparable to Cadillac, and accelerates like a sports car. Even a '79 Camaro is comfortable to drive, except for rear seat passengers; but it’s a sports car, and really the rear seats should be pulled out to be replaced with stereo equipment instead lol.
But I’ll take it a step further than Juggernaut, with the exception of gas mileage I’d wager a 1971 Chevelle would be more comfortable for a driver over longer distances than most modern cars. They didn’t call the Chevelle “A working man’s Cadillac” for no reason.
I have never driven a car that was as comfortable as my old Chevelle, and I’ve driven many cars and trucks.
But you are entitled to your opinion, even though it is wrong.
A friend of mine had a 72 Nova and I must agree, endlessly comfortable ride with enough torque to pull away from almost anything at the lower speeds people drive in the real world. Driver’s cars are nice, but unless I live in the mountains or the nurburgring is next door, most of their talents are wasted.
Yeah you got me figured out, that post I made sure was revealing. rolleyes
I’ve driven the new CTS-V in anger, as well as my old daily driver '93 LX 5.0 5 speed. I have driven a 1970 Chevelle 396 4 speed as well, that was an experience. Not for me, though.
For how I like my cars, lightweight, bespoke, interesting, preferably foreign… muscle cars tick no boxes. Maybe saying they suck, objectively, was harsh. They are not going to be refined or very interesting to me, but I am into weird cars. Lets agree to disagree because that’s the beauty of being a car guy, there’s something for everyone.
Oh and get out of here with that opinion is wrong nonsense, what, are you 12?
Anyone who makes the statement “Muscle Cars are not driver cars” have never driven true blue American Muscle Cars. There are very few muscle cars ever produced in which the driver was generally uncomfortable, or the car completely undrivable as a daily driver. And those specific cars were generally known as “turn key dragsters” as they were designed specifically by the manufacturers to be handed over directly to profession drag racers.
For how you like your cars and those boxes you want to tick.
“Light weight” depends on what you consider is light weight, if you consider 2,500 lbs or lighter as light weight, your best bet is to look towards very small cars. Miata, classic Beetle, '65 Shelby Cobra come to mind. Oh look, a muscle car made that list!
“Bespoke” clearly you don’t understand Muscle Cars. You want made to order, you should have been born early enough to experience 1969 as a young adult. The Camaro as an example, had a laundry list of options to choose from. I don’t even know where to begin to really drive the point home of how little you know about the American Muscle Car… I’ll just start off with the fact that the first generation Camaro had a number of trim levels to choose from. Base model, Rally Sport (RS), Super Sport (SS), Z28, RS/SS, C.O.P.O - Yenko. Rally Sport was the visual package, Super Sport was the package to get if you wanted to go fast, Z/28 was the suspension package and it was the only package that came with only one engine, the 302; that was the homogenization package to enter the Camaro into the SCCA racing series. The SS package was the “big engine” package that offered a variety of performance engines. Hell, for the 396 big block alone you had several options. 325HP, 350HP, 375HP and 375HP with aluminum heads. You could even combine trim packages like the Rally Sport and Super Sport, I’ve even heard of a few Camaros out there that had the RS/SS and Z28 suspension packages.
Then there was the Central Office Production Order Camaros, and Yenko Camaros that came with the legendary all aluminum ZL-1 427 engine. These cars these days are worth a couple hundred thousand dollars.
Of course then there is a long list of transmissions, rear end ratios, interior options, convertible, hard top or vinyl roof. Hood options, stripe options, rim and tire options. There is a saying that goes “No two Camaros are exactly alike”. You could really go as mild or as wild as you’d desire with these cars.
“Interesting” Muscle cars are interesting, except to bubble headed Justin Beiber fans and those with poor taste.
“Preferably Foreign” Move to Russia, now the American Muscle Car would be foreign to you.
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The new CTS-V??? The car still in the testing phase? What was it like?
(o),(o) WAHHHHH! dang and I fought revving the prototype of the Corvette C7 before it came out was cool
so you mean this one right:
First off, it’s Skoal not Copenhagen…
All kidding aside you are way out of your league when you say things like that.
Listen sunshine, you just told me to chill out because of your “opinion.” See the problem with that is that you weren’t making an opinion, now you are back tracking to one.
“Muscle cars suck objectively.” Is not an opinion statement.
“I dislike muscle cars because they are too much for me to drive” or
“I prefer foreign cars because I need a status symbol” Are opinion statements.
You now have realized the error in your argument and are back-tracking to make it seem like an opinion. Now that I have called you out on it sunshine, let’s agree to disagree.