MX-5 '90 is still a powerhouse in E-C class. The point is having tons of cars but only few are competitive for podium in every class. We all understood very well that there is alway a fastest car, but we are all hopping to have more competitive one in all class and race to add some fun. I like to build my car outside the meta zone, but when you got 1 sec at lap in the best scenario things look quite grim. It would be nice to have more event with forcing using one car or a pick of 3-4 belanced one to at last use the whole park avaible.
i love this thread i ve never seen it before i see a lot off smart people here who see the problem aswellā¦
whats the point of the PI system if its not balanced , whats point off class racing if its not balanced whats the point off stats if its not balanced? whats the point of heavy EV cars german power saloons and muscle cars if a mazda go kart with bicycle top speed wins everythingā¦?
like A class : a formula mazda takes 90% off the tracks a top 20-30 time
ok loking at the stats ā¦ F1 handling stat ,F2 brakes stat (all good so fare) , rubbish top speed stat and below avarage accel statā¦ and the best for last ā¦180 hp 
in A class ?
like how is this possible that this go kart is top 30 on a big track like mugello ? it just doesnt make senseā¦ it has NO top speed STAT ā¦ and still it has no speed penalty (it does nearly the same speed on the straight like a 600hp german power saloon)
in fm6 the slowest car (top speed wise )was a KTM xbow with 280hp and it had the highest handling (you see a trend here 
) it was ONLY fast on tiny tiny tracks like catalunya school circuit all others it would DROWN heavily ā¦
and look now at fm23 wowwww!! the ktm xbow !!! its top 30 on a bigggg track like mugello full ā¦ like wow so balanced in fm6 it was the slowest car in A class and only good on ! tiny track with no straights ā¦and here in fm23 its top 30 on a track like mugelloā¦ GREAT how balanced
like others say here ā¦ only 10-20 cars are usable in each class all others are rubbish .
all Heavy EVs ,german power saloons , muscle cars and classics are all in the game for NOTHING ?!
all cars wich cant get higher handling than 4.0 in A class are rubbish (4.0 handling is 6.1 handling in fm6 , so the class racing is slower than ever ā¦) in fm6 6.1 handling was kinda max for online racing go higher and it was to slowā¦
here in fm23 you need ATLEAST 4.0 handling
Youāve ānever seen it beforeā yet youāve posted in it ~20 times under your old gamertagā¦
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i didnt know sorry , i see you know everything you did 3 months agoā¦?
and further are you a CIA agent that you know my old account ?
i wish i still had my old account ā¦ xbox changed it over 2 days without me doing anything
Blind Freddy could read those earlier posts and tell they were written by you, theyāre practically identical. Youāve also mentioned in other topics that your current 'tag isnāt the same as your older ones, and even posted screenshots of leaderboards etc with your old 'tag in them.
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Same with the TC and GT class spec cars. People good at tuning leave you like your cars in D class.Spec series should be just that. Iām not good at tuning Iād sooner just race so I try a tune until it suits me. Tuners have a big advantage in spec class online. Give us all equal cars. World class drivers will still be a second or two quicker a lap.
Tonight the pole sitter in TC was 7 seconds quicker than me. Iām not the worldās best but Iām not slow either. There car was like a rocket ship on the straights. Looked like a different class car.
Blockquote[quote=āSiMp1e_ShOt, post:166, topic:650972ā]
whats the point of the PI system if its not balanced , whats point off class racing if its not balanced whats the point off stats if its not balanced? whats the point of heavy EV cars german power saloons and muscle cars if a mazda go kart with bicycle top speed wins everythingā¦?
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The PI system got a wreid belance in general with race tyre: no E,D or C car should be allowed to use Race. This PI system is even more wreid with some kind of cars like the Miata '90, the Mini Cooper, the Mazda Cosmoā¦using really very few PI. A lot of users have reported this in the Suggestions hubā¦time will say if T10 will listen or not. Coming to super saloon and muscle carā¦I feel like that any race should be among the same kind of cars. First and foremost any kind of open wheel should have itās lobby like in FM7: thay are far too broken in almost any class and the top 1 cause of mayhem at first turn since thay can sprint very well at green light. Said thatā¦even a Super saloon A class should not be able to fight on even ground with a Ferrari CS360 who is still an A class but a car made for racing: if we take reality as a token a racing car will kick the as* of any super saloon berlina or moder muscle begin made for racing in mind. But yes: in general the game need a fine tuning so that handling is not the only key element for a good build and rescrict lobbies with only some category of cars (super saloon and muscle could fight between them).
They talk about ālove lettersā to cars and such things.
I used to have no beef with Mazdas. But between those Miatas and the Isetta over in that other game, Iām beginning to take a real dislike to those cars. 
I got and RX8 in the old days when I was younger: the sound of the vankel engine was the best joy I got while driving. When I was a teen I got luck: my father toke me two time in Belgium to see the 24h of Le Mans and one of that time was 1991: you could get a gimp of a car passing in the night but you could hear the 787B coming from miles away
then why do we have class racing since forza 1 and no division racing instead ??
and why cant a muscle car win from a ferrari 360cs ? if the ferrari needs to stay stock and the muscle car can upgrades its tyres and brakes and lose weight ā¦ it will win
like say the ferrari 360cs does stock a 1:45:00 around silverstone full ( A class ) and the PI index says A692 and a 90s mustang does 1:57:00 stock . should the mustang then be in A class(stock) two NO ?! just give it a B or C class rating like say ā¦ B532 and so its can get upgrades and shave off 10-11 seconds (it doesnt have to be faster than the ferrari ,but it shouldnt be 12 seconds of in the same classā¦) u see so the mustang then CAN beat the ferrari cause the basic PI is lower to give it a change to upgrade its parts and be competitiveā¦
this is how the system in forza always worked ā¦ car goes to slow compared to a other car ā¦ give it a lower class/PI index and so you can upgrade itā¦
thats why forza has class racing and stats and a PI index to make all cars even to a certain extend ā¦ whats fun about ferrariās racing agianst lamborghiniās only and not agianst a poor mans mustang or willys jeep with a LS in it ? or a toyota camry ?
and you say in the basics its not possible to win from a ferrari in a muscle car ā¦ then why this video excists ?
Stunning Alfa Romeo GTA battles two massive V8 Ford Galaxie - YouTube
it just dont get it why people dont see the joy in that its always been like that(driving your minivan agianst a ferrari) in the real forzaās ( pre fm7)
i used to have an fb rx7 and loved the little 12a in that thing (and loved the terrible post-emissions nikki carburetor a great deal less but, well, yāknow). much as i love my sw20, i still miss the rotary and if i had a lot of money iād figure out a way to drop a bridgeported 13b in my car.
yeah but thats a bit different ā¦
i talk about class racing with PI index and sort not being balanced.
you talk about a racing classas with all the same kind off cars ā¦
like if you use the same car as the other guy (the fast one) in the touring car lobby (especaily the honda spec one) and your 5 seconds off then its your task to tune the car and drive better cause both cars are the same ā¦this isnt a problem in the game mechanics or physics ā¦ (only if they cheat )
just a tip just make the rear stiffer and and lose rear downforce and learn to trailbrake and not lose the rear while braking ā¦ . i am to pretty bad at tuning but i am pretty fast myself ā¦ just try things to make it more rotate (drift kinda) into the corner (entry) so the nose is in the right direction faster . u have 30 minutes off practice every race just use it to tuneā¦
if you want i can give you a base tune , but they are twitchy and need trailbrakingā¦
Nope pal: guess you not try a real race car on a track at amateur level: itās night and day from any super saloon berlina, muscle car or even high level street car. Tecnicaly a race car donāt have to upgrade nothing, itās already build to stay on a track but to take in account your suggestion that a muscle or a super saloon can upgrade while a race not you need to put them in two very different PI category. Iāve just try to upgrade an Audi and with all upgrade I was almost at R class level PI wise. So, just imho, any car who is made for racing should start with higher PI. Some cars category are in a very bad place right now but manovrability begin a key element in a racing is not a wrong thing: may tracks got high G turn who are very demanding both for the car and the pilot. We got some problem in the lower class with some stupid car like the Formula Madza or the Exocet but this can be easy solved confining them in ther lobbies. As for super saloon or muscle if you like them so much you should open a ticket in the suggestions hub and asking for lowering their PI so that a full weith reduction and upgrade to race tyre will not boost the in S class and beyond. Beside that and car category lobbies I donāt see many option to use the full cars list avaible and, belive me, there are a lot of cars Iād like to try but I already know they will be not even slight competitive.
u see thats the problem with this game ā¦ in fm6 i used to race anything everywhere and was compettive cause the balancing was done rightā¦
so a F3 car with 240hp inst beatable with a time attack 700hp jumbo jet winged production car ? even a F1 car is beatable ā¦ (not with a production car tough ) porsche build the 919 evo a le mans car with no rules and it broke every record ā¦
u kinda understand it luckily wich is very good 
but you need to understand that every race car (ok skip F1 and indy car) is beatable with enough money and resources . even a toyota prius can win from a nascar if you swap the engine gut the interior add aero etc etc ā¦
its not like a race car uses some kind of magic (ok F1 does )
look at this these cars are underneeth still a steel production car ( not much is left tough )
Raw Car Sounds of World Time Attack Challenge 2023 - Speakers Up (youtube.com)
that last sentence said the whole problem
just let we forgot about the production car vs race car thing cause its not THAT relevant cause i talk about A class (only touring cars are in A class where they shouldnt belong )
i made a thread in the suggestion hub like you said (was a bit hard to find but i found itā¦)
Make class racing balanced agian - Motorsport Features / Gameplay - Official Forza Community Forums
here is the link please vote if you agree ( you kinda do i think ā¦)
thank you
Current Trans Am series cars have 850 horsepower. Current GTP cars have a Max power on the drive shaft of 671 horsepower with hybrid and ICE. A current GTP car will embarrass a Trans Am car at any track in the world. Handling is always more important.
My opinion is that we are closer to an accurate performance model than weāve had in the past. For many iterations of Forza Motorsport and other racing arcade games there have been horsepower bullets that win races as they drift -around corners just to make it up on the straights. Now we have more realistic racing. They may have gone too far and need to come back a little but itās better than what it was previously with thousand horsepower garbage boxes winning races for no reason.
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You have no idea how much I hate you right now. Lol. I would kill to hear a 787B wailing past WFO down a straight in person.
Is it just me or is the handling stat not really handlingā¦ but just grip? At best itās only a combination of weight and grip.
Iām sorry but yes, tires are important, and so is grip, but you can take an old sloppy boat, add racing suspension to it and it doesnāt change the handling stat. Only weight and grip affect the handling stat, but suspension, which is IMO the most important upgrade for handling, doesnāt affect the handling stat at all, except for the weight savings.
And another thing. Tuning does not affect the carās PI at all. I can tune a car so bad itās literally undrivable, and itās PI doesnāt change. I can also tune a car to drive much better, and it again doesnāt change. This is a huge oversight. I understand it probably complicates things on the development side, but the difference it can actually make in performance is huge. Gran Turismo takes tuning into account for performance points but tuning in FM is like free performance, or loss of performance without even knowing it. Like downforce tuning can make a huge difference, but in FM it doesnāt matter how aero is tuned, it just gives X amount of PI points for equipping it and thatās that. You can have two identical cars identically equipped with the same parts and with the same PI number but with different tunes and completely different levels of performance. It makes zero sense, makes the PI number basically irrelevant and is probably a big part of the meta problem. Tuning should count for something and might account for why there are discrepancies in performance within the same PI classes.
Canāt be that difficult, GT7 can do it why cant FM23 and T-10.
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yeah youre kinda right but come on thats a bit far fetched isnt it ā¦ that gonna be a nightmare to program and test
further its 2 a tool to see if you make the car better without understanding tuning (in your example) like if i tune my car for the better the PI goes up so i know my car gets better ā¦eventough i have no idea what i doā¦
thats just lazzy tuning , and people who put 6-8hours into a tune are now angry
like i am pretty bad at tuning but i just compensate that with my skill . if someone is faster in the same car cause his tune is better ,so be it ā¦ a tune only gives you 0,2-,04 sec advantage max (if your lucky)
like i played lots and lots off racing games and PI (or something similair ) never went up if you tuned (fine tune)
games like: RIDE (bike game )
wreckfest
gt3-4
ac ,acc
all games with really a PI system or something similair and yet if you fine tune the PI or class doesnt go upā¦
come just drop that point ,no game (atleast asfar is a know ) ever did this ā¦
just focus on the real problem like that a formula mazda is fastest on 90% off the tracks with no topspeed stat and yet it goes 4-5 seconds faster than a 600hp power saloon . your tuning point only gives you 0,4 sec max ā¦
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