With this latest update there is a visual representation of how the Force Feedback is functioning. I’ve been having problems since the Dec 2018 update with my Fanatec P1 wheel, V2.5 Base on the XboxOne. So now that we have a visual graph I made the YouTube video with the link below to show what I’m experiencing.
So basically I’m getting steering wheel kickback on straights that is very light but can be felt and now seen on the graph. I’m driving my 2008 Viper on the Homestead Oval and trying to keep the wheel as steady as I possibly can. When I’m in the turn you can see the graph oscillate and the numerical readout fluctuate considerably. If you look at the top of the steering wheel you can see it moving slightly while I’m trying to hold it as steady as possible.
There is no tuning setup that has been suggested that eliminates this wheel kickback other than turning FFB off completely. For this video I used the default game settings. The other issue is that once I enter a turn, other than the wheel kickback there is absolutely no road feel at all and if I over steer the turn I don’t get any sense of tire scrubbing like I did before the Dec update and still get when driving Forza 6.
So please look at the short video and let me know what you think. I hate the fact that Forza 7 is still broken for my system and that I have to resort to playing Forza 6 but that’s what I’m doing.
The FFB. I understand is based off the 4 contact points ( tires ) and on the straights it should be less. On an oval track especially with steep banking the car is going to load up ( compress the suspension ) making the 4 contact points have much heavier contact with the track causing a rougher feel in the corners.
Also keep in mind that these tracks are not as smooth as a billards table…there are many bumps in a track that will affect the suspension of the car and will be felt in the wheel as well.
Need for speed, burnout, and games like this have smooth tracks that let you take corners unrealistically fast without bumps but in real life a race track is very bumpy.
I did a Rusty Wallace ride along in a slightly toned down NASCAR and I can tell you it is not smooth in real life. Also with this update I thought they were adding an adjustment to help this. I have not tried it yet but I think you can reduce that feeling.
Get in the Viper and take a few laps around Homestead Oval and put up the same screen and tell me what you experience and see. This has nothing to do with track bumps.
I don’t know enough about what the graphs are showing but clearly it’s not a smooth effect and I’m guessing it’s not supposed to be. Vibrations, Road Feel could well be impacting this. You might try dialling everything back to zero and raising one at a time to see the effect. Might help. I experience a similar twitch on my TX but I have always put that down to road feel and vibrations to make it feel more realistic. One thing is for sure - with the wrong balance this twitch effect can be very off-putting. I’ve always tried to balance my settings to keep this to a minimum.
I have not tried the new update yet but I also have the Fanatec V2.5 wheelbase. I noticed yesterday that there is a new firmware for the V2.5 wheelbase - 328. It is supposed to be much improved according to the posts at Fanatec. I am looking forward to trying out both updates. I will try new Xbox update first.
I’m wondering if the Tire Load slider might reduce this effect as it filters mid range ‘road feel’ frequencies?? Will be interesting to try it tonight.
As I said in the first post it’s not just these kickbacks on the wheel that is the problem, it’s also that there is NO road feel in the turns. When I over steer a turn there is absolutely no tire scrubbing as I get in Forza 6 and did in Forza 7 before the Dec update.
Have you tried raising Pneumatic and lowering Mechanical trail. I was trying this last night and the tyre scrub and lightening of the wheel at or near the limit was pretty good. Road feel is there too, but this relies a bit on having Aligning on the high side as well. Is it all affected just by the balance of your settings?
Usually the tires scrub more when you understeer. You’re literally plowing your steer tires forward once you surpass their limits in terms of friction. The latest FFB update before today has very pronounced FFB as you hit the tires limit. Oversteering while counter steering or basically drifting relies on your front tires maintaining grip while you light up the rear wheels. The FFB doesn’t really react to that besides the steering feel becoming much lighter. As far as the other issue, I think your feeling the FFB transmit road feel through the wheel. If you’ve ever driven a truck with a blown steering stabilizer at highway speeds on rough road, you’ll know that bump steer can pull the wheel out of your hand. The final right hander at Sebring demonstrates this pretty accurately in this game.
Ive not had a chance to check out the new update yet, but I have all day spare tomorrow to sit and check through things. This is what Blue said previously about Fanatec wheels on the Xbox one console with Forza.
Please, post ALL your in game and wheel settings. Just the ones from the controller options menu, not from the per car stuff that was just added. Once I have had a look at the new update, I will see if I can help you out. But I need cooperation to do so effectively.
FYI - Regarding the jerkiness with the Fanatec V2.5 - I have now just done the Forza 7 game update and can confirm that it has no effect on the random shake in the wheel. I can also confirm that the latest Fanatec firmware now available for your wheelbase significantly reduces the jerkiness… It does not try to rip the wheel out of your hands anymore but there is still some slight vibration. Look for firmware V328 in the downloads for the V2.5 wheelbase on the Fanatec website. I did the firmware update and only just ran some laps with the default settings in the wheel itself. I used the same Xbox/Forza settings I had before the firmware update. I suggest that you do the firmware update before spending any more time trying to adjust the in game settings.
I was able to reproduce your video and change it to smooth out the line using a Thrustmaster TMX. It came down to the road feel setting. My initial run show slight oscillation, but no where near what you were getting. I realized I have my settings really low because my wheel will click/pop while turning left, or get stuck if I don’t force it, right near peak tire load. I suspected road feel, so I loaded it up to 200 from and FFB up to 100 from 30/50 respectively. And there it was, my graph matched yours, but bigger. I turned road feel to 0 and then the straights were perfectly smooth with slight steering torque oscillation in the corners. With road feel up, I would feel the notch movements on the straights and slightly in the corner. However, it wasn’t too bad on feel wise even with road feel all the way up on my wheel.
It may have something to do with how your wheel interprets it though, as that is the feedback the game is sending. I got the same graph and eliminated the graph oscillation problem, but that doesn’t necessarily fix your problem. The game tells me it is sending center spring data, but nothing on my wheel at all still. It just doesn’t read it on the XBox. Well, it does read it, just only in the menu screen. So no center spring for me even if I wanted it. Wish I had Forza on the computer, then at least I could set the software center spring.
It might be a place to start though by turning road feel way down though, even trying it on zero. I am not saying this is your problem, but try it out and see if it helps
Thanks for everyone’s input. Let me try to answer the questions raised so far.
Post #8 from Stratocat65: I’m also on the Fanatec Beta Drivers website so I know about the latest driver/firmware and have Version 328 installed. They’ve been releasing new firmware like one each week and I just checked and as of 4:34 am today they now have Version 330 so I’ll be installing that later this morning.
Post #11 from Chuteboxehero1: I’m coming to the conclusion (reluctantly) also that the jerkiness I’m feeling in the wheel from the FFB is the result of Turn 10 trying to simulate the unevenness of the track surface.
Post #13 from Lalym #14 from EpciEvan777: About game and wheel settings. During the video posted I had the game settings all at the Default setting. For the wheel I had: Sen @ 780, FF @ 60, Sho @ 100, Abs @ off, dri @ off, brf @ 30 and FEI @ 100.
And to Lalym about “clipping” if the FFB is set too high. I understand that and if you watched the visuals that T10 showed when then talked about clipping you would have seen that the clipping was shown by the top purple line “exceeding” the very top line of the chart. Mine is nowhere near the upper line of the chart so “clipping” is not the problem.
Realize that default settings are a very basic starting point to work with everything controllers, less expensive wheels and even high end wheels. Many wheels out there have a lot less power in the wheel motor and you have a very high end wheel so you are going to feel way more than a less expensive wheel. On my wheel the FF is @ 36 and in game also at 36. I have the SHO turned off. I know you keep referring to FM6 having such great FFB but personally I went back and tried FM6 to see what you liked and it now resembles a need for speed type of Feel to me. They have made big advances in how it really should feel.
The higher quality wheel will take more fine tuning to get it where you want it. It gives you way better feedback from the strength of the motor so you have to adjust the I. Game settings…I and many others have given you many settings over the past month to use that work great for us…I am disappointed to see you are on default still after so many people have given you all their settings. The only 2 settings that I use on my wheel that affect FFB are the DOR ( 720 ) and FF ( 36 ) everything else is off exept the braking assists ( ABS 67 & BrF @ 50 ) all other adjustments are done with the in game settings…this is where the wheel will come alive.
A wheel is not a plug and play item and especially when you get one of the best on the market…to get it to do what you want you are going to have to dig in and adjust the in game settings!
From what I understand by Blues post in regards to setting FF to 35, I have to assume he means on wheel FF setting; not the in game setting. If he means in game, he will have to correct me if he sees this thread (I wish T10 would update the forums to allow @tags to be used to notify others their input is needed). If this is the case, the game itself may not be clipping with the settings you are using within the software itself; but the wheel hardware might well be. From my understanding of fanatec hardware, the on wheel settings are their own thing. So will either amplify or reduce the FFB on that particular hardware set, on the wheel side itself.
Think of the games force feedback as an audio device of some kind. Then think of the Fanatec on wheel settings as a third party amplifier you have connected to the original audio source. You have the in game volume set to one thing, and then you have the amplifier increasing that externally. The game would not show this as clipping inside the game, since the wheel is not the game.
Again, Blue will need to correct me, if I am on the right track with this; as I dont have a fanatec wheel connected to the xbox one. But I would advise, at the very least, taking the advice to put FF at 35 on the wheel itself.
Edit: Speak of the devil, we both posted at the exact same time; lol.
The visual ffb telemetry is only what the game is calculating, the wheel can interpret those signals verry differently, especially on a fanatec wheel. For instance you could set Damper to 100 in the game but have it turned off on the wheel, the game shows its outputting 100 Damper but the wheel is ignoring that signal. The same is done with the FFB constant force, the wheel setting can scale that signal too, in the case of fanatec on xbox it was detailed that high FF values on the wheel will scale up ffb signal significantly. I read that someone posted here that a new beta firmware fixed that issue but I have not seen the documentation on that.