Seriously, how do you guys know the difference? Let me explain…
I’m a relative newbie, so I still have a good bit to learn. I’ve been playing rivals a lot lately. Getting fairly good at the Alps track too. Anyway, I have a Mini with a tune on it that is pretty sweet. I forget the number, but I have advanced well into the top 1% in D class on the Bernese track. I’ve hit a wall though. I just can’t beat my current rival. Its amazing, I run the whole track perfectly (or at least what I think is perfectly), and he gets me at the finish line by a hundredth of second every time. I’ve raced him over a hundred times now and the best I can do is the same photo finish with him winning.
I assume, in this case, its time to get another tune. Or, it could just be my skill (or lack thereof). Seriously, how do you guys tell when you have taken a car/tune to its limit?
Its rather a both/and than either/or, its car and driver
If you have run it a hundred times and still cant beat him, you need to get better - sometimes a better tuen can help you, or a better car/track combo
Do you use assists? If you do try turning them off
If he gets you in the last turn of alps festival, try practicing more, with that class/car/track combo you should be able to do that turn without braking, just throttle control, if you take the ideal line you should be able to nail it
if he is beating you by a hundredth of a second everytime you have maxed out that car for your skill with those assists. you can try taking a different line which sometimes works. the “best line” blue line is not the best line for every car or every tune. it is the best average line. if you are running asists you can turn one off and do laps until you learn to race without it, in the process you’ll probably get a better lap. if that dosn’t help grab another tune. then another. if you still can beat him after turning off assists and trying multiple tunes/lines then it’s time to try with a new car.
look at the top times…what car are they useing? and dont worry about changing cars, you can find tunes that will make it feel the same. in b class i found a tune that makes the cutlass feel the same as a mini. if he is squeezing past you right at the finish he is probably running less aero which lets him accelerate quicker. save a replay if you can and watch it, watch the telemetry, watch what line he takes thru the last corner, see if maybe you are hitting a bump lifting one of your wheels so your car isn’t fully powered even for a fraction of a second.
I think you misunderstood… My time is under 2:00 and the guy in first place on the leaderboard is at roughly 1:57. I run that whole course with only hitting the brakes a few times, throttle control alone is enough for almost all of it. he isn’t necessarily getting me on the last turn. He’s getting me somewhere, just don’t know where. I jump out in front early and stay in front the entire lap until he just squeezes past me at the finish line.
The question was meant more for in general terms. I used the Mini as an example. I’m pretty confident that technique in the case of the Mini is not the issue. I only say that because I’ve run that car on that track so many times now. If I want to move up further with the Mini, I’ve accepted that I need a better/tweaked tune.
Ok, if you know the answer, then go and try another tune
I dont really understand how you dont know where he gets you, you do see his ghost right? Now you repeat that he gets you at the finish line, so assumingly he gets a better speed coming out of the last turn, plus if you use auto and he uses manual he can get you by gearing better on the last straight heading to the finish line, if you use manual as well try gearing better so you optimise HP usage, plus you havent answered whether you use assists or not, its hard to determine where to improve if you dont tell us enough…
Better tunes can help you, but if you lack the appropriate skill you wont automatically get those 2seconds you are missing
It could be that you are missing those two seconds because of a tune which is not track specific and doesnt fit bernese alps, but there are too many variables… So its hard to tell, there is no universal formula
Without knowing what tune you are running compared to the guys in the top 10 it is impossible to say which one it is. However based on my experience in the previous 4 forzas I would say the majority of the difference is probably the driver. I don’t mean to sound harsh but the difference in skill between no1 and 2-3 seconds behind is a little larger than you might think. My own experience with Forza 3 and 4 I know I’m using the same tunes as some of the number 1s and I’m still a second off and I’m not slow at this game.
Best of luck with improving and let us know how you get on. If you are looking for different setups the tuning section if the forums should have some good places to start.
it’s not either or, it’s usually a little of both. that being said, if you think you ran the track, “perfectly,” then i’d say you need to rethink your tune. if you can watch your replay and not spot a single corner where you think you could’ve shaved another few hundredths, then the tune is the only possibility. the reverse side is, there might be a spot you missed or a line that’s a little bit faster. for example: my time around the TG track in Lauda’s F1 car. i know for a FACT i messed up through the follow-through, which forced me to lift. i know that my tune has another half second or maybe more left in it, but i cannot repeat the lap as well as i did that one magical time. however, if indeed you did the best you possibly could, then it’s time to look at the tune. where is your rival faster than you? the corners or the straights? also, consider that maybe you might need a different car. i don’t know what the LB cars are in D class, but in S class for instance, you need a viper or F50 tune to run the leader boards well (not the reason i use a viper. a friend of mine asked me to make a tune for him because he liked the car, and i also like the car. it just happens to also be faster than anything else).
OK, here’s what I did… I ran the race again. Everytime I had run it, I would get the best of him through the first long turn and have a nice lead. Unless I make a mistake, he is never in front of me, so I don’t see his ghost at all. I’ve been so focused on just beating him that I didn’t bother to slow down to watch him. Today, I ran several laps and made sure he got a little in front of me after that first turn. Just enough for me to try and watch him. He makes a mistake and skids a good bit through that first turn. Almost loses it too. Later, going up the sweeping hill before the tunnel, he fishtails a good bit. His lap is perfect otherwise. Once through the tunnel, he is flawless. He doesn’t really do anything all that different from me. IMHO, I don’t think I am making any glaring mistakes. He makes those two mistakes but recovers from them and just slowly runs me down. He isn’t making up the gap on the last turn. While I was running laps, making sure to stay behind him, it gets harder and harder to keep up with him. He just runs away from me once he is through the tunnel. I follow his every move and wind the gears out for all they are worth, but there is just no catching him. I just think his tune is a tiny bit faster than mine and that’s all there is to it. Mine is a downloaded tune, so I can’t alter it. I tried making my own, but this one is far better than anything I can come up with. Maybe I will try the one on the tuning forum.
As to assists… I am using ABS and normal steering, that’s it.
I could care less about catching the overall leader, I’m not that competitive. I got sick of the crash up derbies in all the races, so I turned to Rivals. Its made a much better driver out of me, that’s for sure. They should make everyone that plays the game run a certain amount of hot laps before being allowed to enter any races. It would sure cut down on the drivatars that cut corners and smash into everyone. I went back and ran a career race after running a ton of laps in Rivals. I was guilty of smashing into people as well when I first started playing the game, but that’s behind me now. For me, Rivals is a lot more fun.
Try a track specific tune, IDK but maybe you are running a general grip tune, and although you need grip in the alps as well, but that track is very fast, so maybe you need anotzer tune,
Yesterday I started running x-class rivals and was doing alps as well, I had a hard time beating two of my friends which were in front of me, while in the rest of the classes I could beat them with overall non-track-specific tunes very easily, this time I searched for a alps tune, and in the end I beated them easily
And if you are running with try turning of abs, maybe not that relevant for alps because there is not much braking there, but as you recognize in your second pos you said you hit the brakes a couple of times… Maybe you could gain enough advantage so he doesnt beat you in the last section, and if you are running manual try searching on the old legacy.forums.forzamotorporst.net for threads discussing best shift points
this is going to sound difficult, but it is worth it in the end:
driving with ABS off, while it seems impossible at first, is absolutely essential if you want to do well on the leader boards. that’s your first fix to try. it takes time, but once you learn to drive without ABS, you will be able to brake much later, which adds up to a dramatic increase in times. i used to drive with ABS on in FM4. then i entered a lobby which forced ABS off. once i got used to it, i was instantly able to absolutely DESTROY my old LB times.
as to tunes, i will say give Worm’s tune a try. i usually make all my tunes myself (i can’t get the most out of a car unless i know how it’s set up) but if i come to a car i simply can’t tune, his tunes are always absolutely epic. that being said, tuning isn’t nearly as impossible as you think it is. i know-- i used to have absolutely no idea how to tune cars in the game. then i read the FM4 grip tune guide, and within a good week of learning how everything worked, i was able to master the art of building my own tunes. most of the time, i can take a car from stock to optimized for a class in about an hour or two.i think Worm posted a guide similar to the one i read for FM4, except this one’s a lot more in-depth, which should prove even more helpful. but like i said, if you don’t want to jump into tuning just yet, just DL Worm’s tune. it’s almost certainly one of the top 10 best tunes for any car in its respective class.
and, like i said, perhaps the car you’re using just isn’t gonna cut it. the alps is a big track. granted you spend most of the time with the wheel turned, but i’ve always found more powerful cars to be at an advantage on Alps, so maybe you should swap your car for something with a bit less handling in exchange for a bit more power.
and i agree, rivals in this game is much more fun than it was in previous Forzas. i still do enjoy online racing, however. if i don’t get crashed i usually make the podium. and that’s really satisfying. but putting in a good LB time can be just as satisfying. depends what mood i’m in, really, and what sort of people are online at the moment.
If you want to figure out where you can gain time you need to choose yourself as the rival.
Since you already know exactly how you ran your best lap it will let you experiment with all the different corners and where to brake or not brake and when to run a lower gear out of a corner or a higher one etc…
In the class you are racing every little tire scrub or over brake will really affect your time.
Also you should really learn to use no ABS. When you get it you will be amazed at how much a difference in braking distance.
it really narrows down to an even mix of both, who has the faster car, who can come out of those corners faster. all that stuff, its tuning and driving. you have to be able to blend the two. or you could be a douchebag like some people on the leaderboards and exploit the game to allow you to use an illegal car for the rivals event.