I bought an app for my phone on the recommendation of several people here. It is ForzaTune 5 for the iPhone. For the most part I’m able to buy a car, max it up to the class that I want and use the app to tune and set gear ratios. It gives me a very drivable car every time and I’m starting to be able to meddle in online races here and there. Two things I could use help with from here are:
Some of these tunes, although they handle well, max out in top gear. What I mean is that it just can’t go any further and I’m stuck at a certain speed while other drivers pass. Did I screw up the gears or is this common? How do you fix this??
Although I’m able to meddle frequently now, I’m usually several seconds behind on lap time and obviously considerably behind on overall time. I know that there are a lot of people who know how to tune really well and are, probably more importantly, better drivers than me, I feel like I run some clean races and still can’t get near the better times. How can I start to get closer to those better times?
I decided to go down to D class and turn off all assists (with the exception that I’m not using a clutch). I’m running rivals and going for clean laps. Still quite a bit behind the top guys though.
This is my first go 'round with Forza. I didn’t really play with any regularity before this one (I did try another but I was terrible so I scrapped it).
Anyhow, thanks for all the help, tips and encouragement on here! It’s been a huge help! Now, trying to take the next step.
I assume you determine the build and the app determines the tune.
It is possible you do not have the best build on the car. Maybe post how you are going about the build and the tuners can offer advice. Also be specific with track and car in the info you provide.
It is also possible that the app does not get the gears right. What I would do is go into the gear page in the tune (in game) and slide the final drive towards speed and check on the left hand side if the benchmark top speed goes up or down. This gives you an indication on whether you can get more speed from the car from gearing alone ie if top speed goes up then your gearing is too short. Also sometimes the gearing in the graph on the right may go up to say 200mph but the benchmark says top speed is 150mph. Then you need to work out how many gears you want to use to get to the 150mph. Any gearing above that speed will not achieve anything but sometimes using 4 or 5 gears is better than all 6 anyway. (having said that the benchmark is only an indication and should not be seen as an absolute - sometimes its just plane wrong but also at say Alps there is a downhill section where the top speed can be exceeded if you have enough gearing).
Just go in and lower your final drive on your transmission so the bar is closer to top speed instead of accel. Now using the tuning setup on the app is good and all but it will leave a lot to be desired. I would recommend finding some tunes from other good tuners so you can feel what a good car should feel like. If you have some questions about tuning you can always send me a message on XBL and i will try to help you out.
As for building a car I was given the following as a sort of template:
Tires - Racing compound and widest for both front and back
Next get racing Brakes, Springs, ARBs and Weight Reduction.
Forza Spoilers front and back so that they are adjustable
Racing Transmission and Differential
From there, upgrades to engine/HP to max out class.
Then look to see if rims or anything else can still be put on without going over.
Is there a better way to build? ( I assume so… )
Thanks!
The biggest savings are usually in the roll cage, tyres and transmission choice. The PI you don’t waste on these can be spent on go-faster parts under the bonnet. Some cars work great with the stock transmission for example, or with street cage or no cage. Unless you’re going for a full grip build, never add more rubber (compound and width) than you need.
Don’t bother upgrading clutch or flywheel, and try to focus on engine parts that shed weight.
If you want to use induction, the centrifugal superchargers almost always deliver the most on-track benefit.
Pay attention to the character of the car when you start building it. You may approach different drive types, weights, wheelbases slightly differently. If a car is already strong in one area - say the engine - then focus on building it up where it is weaker.
Some cars will never be as fast as others of apparenlty equal potential, no matter what you do to them.
I agree mostly with what Mick said, and I’ll add my thoughts on top.
Cutting weight is almost always the best thing you can do. Some parts you have to value in terms of PI cost. Some cars adding a roll cage adds 50lbs but frees up 3PI. If I’m close to the PI cap I usually max it out with a weight trim using clutch(it can drop >20lbs) and/or flywheel. Rims are another way to max out the pi once your build is +/- 1 PI. After tunable parts race exhaust is my first addition. I usually avoid camshaft unless I want power and can give up weight.
This is why people need to learn how to tune rather than rely on someone or something spoon feeding them! The app WONT give you accurate gears FACT and wont give you the best tune for you FACT! You need to learn how to tune because it would only give you a generic base tune which wont be very good for you.
RR
RR this is what i was thinking but did not know how to politely post on here. the tune on a car is about 25% of the car the other 75% is in the build. as the other s have stated you must build to maximize the PI while getting the most out of performance and grip.
also if you are going for a certain track you have to build for what type it is , short track = grip and accel med track = accel ,mild top end and mild grip long tracks with long straights =accel top end , and mild grip. these are my thoughts and may not be what works for the drivers/tuners who have posted before me.
Ok, so how do you know these things? How do you know if you’ve got the right tire compound and/or width? How do I know which cars have a good stock transmission or already powerful engine?
I get vastly different advice from people so I’m getting lost learning how to tune…
This game is frustrating in that way - it seems I will remain in noob status far longer than I want. I just am not getting how to build/tune I guess. Even looking at open source tunes, I don’t know how people arrive at these things.
All of the above posts are correct but I can relate to your frustrations because there is no one right answer.
My thoughts on whether the build (which has more significant impact than the tune) is good or not is this: if the car is easy to control, then you have too much tire (compound+width). Keep reducing the grip until the car just begins to get away from you. That’s the correct grip level for you. Then put remaining PI into the power. The experienced drivers can still be fast with reduced grip (but more power) but a novice driver will feel more comfortable with higher grip (with reduced power). Once you are comfortable with the car then slowly trade it off for power and/or weight reduction.
As for the gears topping out . . .
The benchmark window shows the top speed based on gears and aerodynamic drag on the car. This is the physical maximum speed you can get from the car, provided that it is level ground. If the track is going downhill then the car could exceed this limit but not by much.
In the gears set-up screen, the top speed shown by the tip of the highest gear is MISLEADING. That screen shows the maximum speed the GEAR can deliver, NOT what the engine can deliver. By far the EASIEST way to set the gear is to go to LeMans “OLD” track then adjust the final gear ratio so the gear barely tops out. It is important to understand that one does not need to use all gears at all tracks. On some tracks you might only use up to 4th gear, other tracks up to 5th gear and so on. The gears should match the engine output/characteristic, then fine tune for specific track ONLY if it is necessary.
It is entirely possible to have ONE gear setting and run the same gear on all tracks.
The only way to know if you are on the right path is to drive different builds. One with more grip and the other with more power. Just keep saving tunes and builds and then find the one that gets around there the fastest. If you would like some more tips hit one of us up online and we can help with a certain car or track.
Build and drive till you get times you like and go from there. You can also build a car and drive it a bunch of different tracks to see which track it’s best suited for, but either way build/test and repeat and save any changes.
Ok, I guess it’s just going to be trial and error. I just don’t know what parts to swap and what things to tune. Like, springs can be a part of over/under-steer, but so can ARB and other factors. So I don’t know where to go there. AND I don’t know where to start to set things like springs, ARBs, Camber, Aero, Etc…
With that said, should I take a car that I drive well, take the tires down a notch and add HP, give her a go and see what happens? I feel like this should effect the tune at that point though and I won’t know where to go. There’s seemingly a ton that goes into this but I’m really tired of being 7+ seconds behind the leader on lap time when I feel like my car drives well and I’m getting around clean…
I will be racing all afternoon today when i get off of work. Since you seem like you really want to learn the basics please send me a party invite sometime after 4pm central time. It is 11am here right now so in about 5 hours i should be free all night. I will try and give you some tips and tricks and anybody else that is interested can jump in and listen or even help out so maybe i can also learn a new trick.
If you are using a car with the 1.6L turbo make sure you are shifting at 5000rpm - 5500 rpm. The 5.7l can go up to the rev limiter if you need it to but it is losing power after redline.
A quick tuning run thru to start you off with
Tires 29.0/29.0
Gearing… thats a bit tricky so i will leave that to somebody else
Camber 3.0 front and 2.7 rear
Toe0.0/0.0
Caster 5.0
ARB 15.0 front and 25.0 rear
Springs 600 front 500 rear
Ride height 4.0 front and rear or as close as you can get
Damping 11.0/12.0 rebound and 3.0/1.5 bump
Aero Full front and rear
Brake 53% bias and 130% pressure
Diff 30/10
THIS IS NOT A END ALL BE ALL BY NO MEANS. This is just a starting point. Some cars this will get it close and other cars this will feel horrible on. Feel free to try it and hopefully it will give you a good base to start with on some of your cars.
Build the car that you feel comfortable with. THEN you can start tuning. As for Springs, ARB, Camber, Damper, etc., even with a good teacher it will take months BUT that is the fun! Making small changes then feeling its impact on your drive and extra 0.5 second off the laptime is the rush that many of us seek.
7 seconds off is actually not so bad. 5 seconds off is good. Within 3 seconds is a rocking time.
If you feel that your car drives well and you are getting around clean . . . then the car probably could be pushed a little harder . . . Join online races with people you know and start picking their brains. Me and few close friends race on Friday nights (~9pm Eastern) and get into many discussions. Send me a FR and I’ll invite you to the races (GT = GRD 4 3L).
That might be your driving more than the tune or build itself. When the game came out I was aiming to be within 10 seconds of the leader now I’m around 3 depending on the track. When your driving look at where you’re losing time. Is it on the straights? In the corner? Or your line around the track?As your driving improves so will your tuning and then your driving and so on.
If you enjoy tuning i wouldn’t want you to stop doing it, but learning to drive fast should be your absolute priority. Get the tunes from respected fast drivers and just concentrate fully on improving your lap times.
Yes that is correct. It’s what you should be most concerned about is the build rather than the tune. The tune Maximum could make up 2 seconds while on a speed track using a grip build you could be losing out by like 5 seconds.
How do I know if these settings are right? Trial and error with a little common sense…
This game, from what I have seen, works by ratios. By this I mean if the No.#1 car in A Class is running … handling then S Class on that track will have a handling … more. What I just said there means that if you find those values, you could build a car for that track in mostly any Class.
But, that’s how I know if my build is relatively correct. The next thing is you could have that handling but with different combinations…
ALWAYS GO FOR LIGHTNESS OVER POWER AND GRIP… Unless the car is already really light and for a certain track it needs X more handling…
Little tips/tricks like that allow you to build cars with no/minimal fuss, you just have to play the game more and find out for yourself. Giving away All I know will be a little annoying so you need to use is your brain! I ain’t the smartest, though I did have an IQ for art over 140 (If I’ve remembered from High School), but apart from that I’m an average normal person… I quote “Nothing ventured, nothing gained!”
RR
All these adviser. Are correct and know what they are talking about. I have followed this same advice many times and learned lots for tuning and racing. I am still very much a noob in my mind but I have found that building a decent balance for power and grip have worked for me the most. I have built 3 cars( 1 S class and 2 R class) that I love like this and always finish in 5th or better depending ln how many people take me out during the race for passing them also easily.