Index and Perfomance increase for some German Cars (BMW, AUDI, AMG, Demon) Outdated Vehicles

Forza Horizon Legacy Horizon FH4 Discussion
1

When started playing the game for the first time the first think I was looking about the game were the improvements or changes done to the Class Index and Performances of the cars (on stock).
I just noticed many vehicles where increased in Points Class to match the real performance, and some of the of course downgraded to their proper class now that newer vehicles are being added.

While most of them are kind of more accurate and balanced than previous Forza games there’s some that instead of being increased are being downgraded, while should be the opposite.

Example:

-The BMW M4 (A800) its the top A class, its faster than any other car of the class, even the C63 S. And the car doesn’t even appear to have the Competition Package but the car still reaches +293KM.
-The C63 S (A777) its equal like an M4, both Acceleration and Top Speed, but its left behind by miles in Drags and Races. The car its the S version but feels more like a regular C63, it even struggles.

This is how it works in Forza Horizon 4, but the funny thing its opposite in Forza Motorsport 7, the C63 S its actually faster than the BMW M4, and even it has a higher Index class.

In my opinion they should have the almost the same class, because they are actually the same in terms of Power. In real life an M4 can beat the C63 S just like in the game, but the C63 S its still faster after a rolling start. Both can reach the same exactly top speed (293KM) so at some point the should be at the same distance, the M4 just lefts away the C63 S most of the times even if its tuned.

This kind of vehicles should be patched or updated with better enhancements, on stock upgrades to not be so unfair. This is the vehicles that deserve and buff to be competitive in the game.

-C63 S: from A777 should be enhanced to A791 (10 Points higher from Forza Horizon 3).
-C63 AMG BS: from A792 should be A800 (the top A class car like Forza Horizon 1 and 2)
-BMW M4: Should be adjusted to S801 as Competition Package (First S1 class car)
-BMW M6: from A779 should be A789 (10 Points)
-RS4 Avant: from A750 should be enhanced to a A760 (10 Points)
-RS5 Sportback: from A750 should be enhanced to A760 (10 points).
-RS7 Sportback: from A761 should be to A781 (20 Points)
-RS6 Avant: from A776 should be A786 (10 Points)
-Dodge Demon: This vehicle its around S820s and it actually can do the drag really fast, launching harder even than the Huracan, and its lower even than ZL1. Should be around S840.

This is not a wishlist! This is something should be considered for the game! Thanks! The values are only 10 and 20 points higher like they were back in Forza Horizon 3. That’s how they should be.

2

Do you actually know how the PI system works?

I would say you don’t based on what you have written here.

3

If you know how it works Im open to hear you!

There are some cars most German which performance its not enough, that’s why increase these points will make them up date. I will not enter full details, because the longer this will be, just the PI Index gives all cars a representation of what they are.

4

Based on that, it is a ranking of how well the car performs when an AI drives it around a test track that we have no knowledge of or access to.

Which means anyone saying any particular car should be higher or lower PI because in real life it performs better does not have a valid point in the slightest.

It’s a performance index designed to give you an indication of the performance to expect, but not an outright definitive rating that means it will always outperform cars that are rated at a lower index because:

  1. It’s an AI driving the car around the track
  2. Its the result of only one test track and we don’t know the configuration of this track

So when you modify a car, it can be run around this test track by the AI and based on how well it performs it is given a ranking which indicates, leaderboard style, where the car ranks relative to other cars.

The PI is basically an AI leaderboard for a track we know nothing about.

So in short, the PI is not really affected by the real world, stop trying to justify changing the PI of a car based on real world data, it’s just irrelevant due to what PI actually stands for.

1 Like
5

I never knew that. That’s pretty interesting, thanks for the explanation.

6

M4 needs lower PI, not higher. As it is, I must replace the engine with a weaker one to be able to install adjustable parts. The reason it’s fast is because it’s very slippery, like the 2018 Civic.

Mercedes has 23 PI to play around with, that’s a lot. And it can have adjustable parts without breaking into S1 class.

Dodge Demon is supposed to be the fastest. It’s a 10-second car IRL. Red Key brings it even lower but it’s not featured in the game.

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7

The real culprit of bad forza balance is the Nissan R390. That thing has been terrible in every game.

8

Well, at least 3 of his list should be lowered in PI because they are dreadfully underpowered: C63S, M4 and Dodge Demon. I’ve done A-class testing of the luxury sedans championship. The C63S and M4 are miles behind most other cars in that championship on A. The M4 because it’s somehow rated A800 and is only adjustable with a swapped engine - still sucks. The C63S is just bad, like really bad.

The same goes for the Demon. The acceleration is atrocious for the power it has. It underperforms on S-class like nothing else.

On the other side we have the standard Forza highperformers like Noble M600, McLaren F1 GT or GT40 MkII. While the overall balance is quite good (definitely better than in FH3) there are some cars which need adjustment - in one or the other way.

9

What I mean its just to increase the index to close to vehicles that are quite similar in performance, not to reduce it LOL. the C63 S its quite slow in the game, and need a boost in stock upgrades.
They should be that way on stock! Not get that result by tuning them. Just the vehicles I mentioned would require these changes to be like in FH2 and FH3. Not nerf them just balance the rest of them.

10

Man, just stop crying… Did you even read the post in which the PI system has been explained? While it may not be 100% perfect and there is always one car in each class that outperforms the others, it works very well! I have plenty of A800 cars that are equally fast, and you are right: The BMW M4 is not one of them. Why is that the case? Because 99% of the time the tuned cars is just faster than a stock car.
And lets stay with the M4: If you compare it to other factory cars of its class it is faster. That is because it has always been OP in the Horizon Series, ever since it came to the Franchise in FH2. If they need to do anything to any of the cars you’ve mentioned, they should nerf the M4!

11

Obviously no one bothered to read it.

They just continue to stamp their feet because they look at Forza like an RPG where weapons need buffs and nerfs.

This is what happens when you broaden the appeal of a game beyond people who actually enjoy cars and give everything arbitrary stats. Turn it into a game and people treat it like a game.

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12

But isn’t that what it has become?

IMO the Horizon franchise would be much better if classes were done away with and PI limits analogous to each class were reinstated only in competitive play. It would be better than homologation in FM7 since, by letting people use what they want in blueprinted events, it would calm the people who throw a hissy fit once they learn the game requires you to use a different car from time to time.

IRL you don’t mod to a PI, you mod to your needs and the platform’s potential. 2.5L Subaru engine pushes my Beetle up to S1, but I don’t want to be in S1 with it and eventually race cars at 850, 870, etc. When you’re not at your class’ limit, sometimes the game puts you up against better cars, which wouldn’t happen if there weren’t classes and all opponents were matched to your own speed instead.

13

M4 has already been nerfed, its only viable class is S1. But the seasonal championships for Super Saloons have all been A800 so far and the M4 must either compete stock or with the worse 4.0 V8 engine.

It needs to be A795 at the very least so we can add all adjustable parts. If balance is a concern then bring other cars down like Giulia which has a stronger engine than M4 and is rated A795.

14

All of you don’t get… What I mean its to rematch some vehicles like they did in some of them:

Example:

1.- The G65 AMG Wagon and Ford FPV Pursuite Ute they were both B680 class back in Forza Horizon 3.

2.- Now the G65 AMG and Ford FPV are now both A712 class and A710 respectively in Forza Horizon 4.

Both cars received a increase index and performance and from B to A class without changing or upgrading the cars.

That’s why people like me did back in Forza Horizon 3, because most cars are underpowered as they should real be.

That’s why they need to do with the vehicles that I mentioned in my first thread. Just an small buff to improve them.

Also this is not necessary for all cars of course, just for some vehicles that still aren’t right about their performances.

Maybe regular changes to the cars should be considered for the developers, to update what cars are now outdated.

And increase the PI in cars that could be actually slower than they already are. Like keeping the vehicles up-to date.

15

Yeah… I´m pretty sure we all get it, but it does not make ANY sense at all! Yes, the PI has changed from Horizon 3 to 4. May I tell you something? The PI has gone into the direction of Horizon 2 again, most PIs were lowered from Horizon 2 to 3. And let me tell you something YOU don´t seem to understand: The PI is just a number, increasing it does not make the car faster, lowering it does not make a car slower: A A790 car can be faster than a A800 car, it all depends on the drivers skills and the track. And no, they don´t need to adjust the PI for any car. The system works, I am racing online quite often with my friends and we all use different cars for each class, barely two times the same car in a row. Yet, we are equally fast

16

It’s you who don’t get it, more PI to play with is always nice, especially when it frees adjustable parts for me.

If an A800 car is slower than an A790, then perhaps the A800 car needs to be manually corrected to be able to gain updates that make it competitive against the A790 car. PI is how performance is gauged in Forza and if it doesn’t reflect gameplay then it should be adjusted, like in any other game.

I have several evenly matched cars at the top of their classes. However, there are always special cases which are either too fast or too slow. Those need manual correction.

17

I said an A790 car CAN be faster than an A800 car, it all depends on the drivers skills and the track! Go out there and race a stock Senna against a well built S1 900 Lancia Delta in an offroad race. No car needs manual correction in Forza, the PI system works like I´ve stated in previous comments.

18

That’s just plain wrong. Take an S900 Dodge Demon and race it against an S900 McLaren F1 GT on any track. The Demon doesn’t stand a chance - never.

And because “no car needs manual correction” there hasn’t been any in FM7…oh wait. The Veloster Turbo and Opel Manta were two cars which got theirs stock PIs manually highered and thus both were nerfed.
PI is just a number that comes from a not accessible “test track” driven by the game itself. It can be altered and in some cases it should be. Most cars are balanced in FH4 when on the same PI given enough room for adjustable parts. But there are always “trash” cars like the Demon, like the C63S and overpowered stuff like the F1 GT, the Noble M600, the GT40 MkII.

19

Let´s race then. Your F1 GT versus my Dodge Demon. You choose one track, I choose one track. And I can say for sure: I´m gonna win at least one of them :wink:
For the rest of your statement: Just read what I´ve written before, I don´t want to repeat myself 3 times

20

God dude, your attitude is a mix of ignorance and arrogance. Not a good combo.