There’s been this issue with windshield wipers leaving a trail in RT reflections on track. I think this is gone now. Can someone confirm or have my brain just gotten so used to the issue that I’m ignoring it? Was it listed in the fixes?
It’s the SSR reflections. And yes it has been mitigated (not fixed because it can’t. Disocclusion is a normal artifact of SSR). It’s barely noticeable now.
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I think they may have managed to reduce it but no, it’s definitely there. Just the other day, in fact, I noticed it.
Also, the rain droplets on the screen and the wipers wiping them off is just not realistic - anyone else?
It feels like the wipers are not really in contact with the windscreen when wiping off the drops - as if the drops keep coming and there’s no wiper there. Make sense? There’s not even any condensation trails to indicate that wipers are wiping off raindrops and moisture off the windscreen. My view is still obstucted. I should at least see through a clear windscreen as the wiper wipes through from one side to the next.
Anyway, not impressive at all, these effects were far better in FH3, FM6, FM7, etc
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Ironically this is only an issue because they decided to downgrade to SSR instead of raytracing. SSR can only reflect what is seen, and the wipers will block visibility of certain things.
This can never be completely fixed unless they decide to let us enable the raytraced effects that they’ve already shown to be working.
Well I think i looks great now. Kudos to T10 for keeping up the work!
No. They have always used planar reflections for tracks surfaces prior to this (like nearly all racing games) . It has always been the best solution but it essentially doubles the geometry throughput (lower LOD meshes where used for the car reflections to help with bandwidth constraints)
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planar has issues of its own. Its performance scales with the complexity of the scene, you’re rendering it twice after all, so at a point even raytracing can become the cheaper solution. It also has issues on sloped surfaces. Planar reflections ideally should only work on flat surfaces so slopes require distorting the reflections which can have alignment and stability issues.
Looks better than SSR IMO, but much heavier and not always worth the tradeoff. GT7 does it well enough though tbh
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Polyphony made all the right decisions in GT7 with regards to engine tech (great use of planar and cube map reflections, stable AO implementation, real volumetric clouds system, RT only for replays & garage) . Unlike Turn10 (which is a shell of its former self) who can’t even property stitch the track tiles together (https://forums.forza.net/t/environment-track-seams-can-be-seen-on-some-tracks-road-america-suzuka-maple-valley).
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Maybe T10s solution will reward them further down the line. PD has done amazing handcrafted work on all parts, but I think the tech in Forza has the potential to outdo GT7. It’s also easy to forget that GT7 has been updated for how long now? 2 years?
It definitely looked better on the Dino 246 during the nighttime race in the rain from series one of the current open class tour. Gotta test some other cars and times of day…
Probably not tbh, theyve chosen to use 4 different types of reflections at once while simultaneously not maximizing any of their effect. The solution or tech isnt different so much as the quality.
They need to get back on track when it comes to quality, in the past things were the other way around gt was behind forza in quality, its flipped. I also think the gap has widened if you take into account gt is multigen and forza is supposedly next gen.
There are still things graphically in forza that dont seem to work correctly, the windshield ssr was an example, rtgi was also removed apparently just before release on the pc side. So its possible the lighting thats in the game now and many of the things tied to it was the back up.
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Forza is not far behind GT7 at all, and they had time after launch to polish different aspects. Sadly Forza is not optimised and this is my only worry…will they be able to get rid of junk-code so high spec PC’s and the next Xbox can take advantage of this tech?
Regardless…I’m almost happy it ain’t better when I think about how much time I spent on this game. For me at least…It’s too much fun.
Indeed. You could make the argument that they were forward thinking if their choices were correctly implemented but what Turn10 has done is absolute madness.
They currently have the worst RT reflections implementation of any game so far (BVH is too small & not enough samples) and the argument can be made that a proper SSR implementation on the cars (like Drive Club nearly 10 years) for body self-reflections and openents cars réfections would have given better results. Polyphony has deemed RT reflections not a viable solution during gameplay and they’re were right. Even Kunos Simulazioni decided to not do it in Asseto Corsa Competizione even thought it was announced, planned & bankrolled by Nvidia themselfs.
RTAO also doesn’t make any sense whatsoever when any other screen space AO solution would have done the trick especially in a game where the camera it fixed 99% of the time and never rotates vertically. What is done now if ridiculous given the low sample count because the denoiser simply can’t keep up.
Finally using SSR for track reflections was bound to cause issues with disocclusion in cockpit view that’s why everybody has stuck with planar reflections for decades in racing games.
That’s on top of having totally broken assets (tracks & many of the cars).
The only thing they got right is the physics engine which is frankly awesome & the best so far (especially with gamepad)
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Youre very difficult to converse with. I know you like this game, forza having worse graphics than another game wont take that away. Forza has better overall physics than gt, but plenty of people still like and have fun in gt.
These discussions dont need to devolve this way but it seems as though you take offense every time. Its not really an opinion, gt looks better than forza in most ways, thats not to say forza looks like a 360 game, it has its strong points but in most ways theyre not as strong as gt. Gt has also not received any graphical fixes that im aware of post launch.
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Yes i think rt was a mistake to use during gameplay. I think they put their eggs in the wrong basket and multiple things suffered for it. I said it a few years ago that no other racing game used it as its not worth the sacrifice.
The funny thing is, most people dont even know what theyre looking at. Most people didnt know that rt reflections on series x only works within a few feet and only reflects other cars. It was totally unnecessary.
The worst part is none of these sacrifices will be rectified. I dont know what “gen” they were making this game for but it certainly wasnt this one.
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Tried Hockenheim with the AMG One in moderate rain and it’s better, didn’t have the broken reflections / wipers leaving trails.
However, the wipers could really be more effective. Maybe it’s realistic, but I think it’s a bit too hard to see the track from within the cockpit at times.
You are right in that I don’t see what I’m looking at but I still think it sometimes looks absolute sublime. Especially in overcast weather that lets sun through after some time on track. First game that gave me that feeling of going from bleak weather to sunny weather. Again it’s a personal preference but I enjoy this much more than having the perfect lighting conditions at all times.
Yes sometimes things look good they just need to keep trying to improve things. Maybe one day you’ll broaden your horizons and play some other racing games that also have this feature, some of which for almost a decade.
Am I imagining things or did they change rain reflections on the track, too?
Tried a few races and it seems the mirror-like surface of the track has been reduced. To me it seems more matte, duller, less reflective overall.
It’s a bit less lively, but more realistic, I think. Even heavy rain seems more subdued now.
Placebo or real? Maybe this is part of the wiper fix?
I find it quite entertaining that people who love and defend FM23 always like to chide GT7 because “It’s been updated now for over two years to get it right”. When they lose track of the fact that T10 took 6 years (or 4 years if you want to give them that fictitious covid break) and they are still trying to pour out the upgrades in an attempt to “get it right”. If T10 gets FM23 even close to the point GT7 is at “Right Now”, in two years of updating. Where will GT7 be as they continue to improve and upgrade GT7 in the same time period? T10 is playing catch up with a runaway train. And GT7 isn’t showing signs of slowing down.
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