Got a wheel a few days ago and I'm significantly slower. Is that normal? Any tips?

So, yes, I got a Logitech G29. I know some people have issues with this wheel, but it was within my budget and since it’s the first wheel I’ve ever owned (well, since like 1998 when I had some crappy Mad Catz thing) I’m finding it incredibly fun. But man, do I suck.

Now, that doesn’t exactly surprise me, I also suck with a controller, and I did expect there to be a bit of an adjustment period, but at this point I’m just not sure I’ll ever get good enough to even match my times with a controller. Even with the basic assists on (ie not auto steering or braking) the cars mostly feel a lot more twitchy. Does the game adjust the level of assist based on whether you’re using a controller or a wheel? I have to wonder, because I find it almost impossible to lock the brakes on a controller with ABS on, but with the G29 it definitely still happens if I’m not careful.

And then I tried one of the high powered AMGs (2017 Mercedes-AMG GT R I think) with no assists, and I could barely make it round a corner without spinning. Is that normal? Is it realistic? I honestly don’t know. I can’t imagine how much skill it would take to get something like that around a track in a good time. The only way I could do it was by taking each corner very, very slowly and being so, so tentative on the accelerator.

Anyway, despite all this I’m still loving the wheel, it’s just a lot more fun. But anyone got any tips for someone who is both a newb and a noob? Or any advice on what settings would make it easier for me? Any help would be much appreciated :slight_smile:

Nope. Not in the slightest.

https://forums.forza.net/turn10_postsm818605_Wheel-settings-for-FM-7–Demo-and-game.aspx#post_818605

I’m having the same issue with the Logitech G920. Also my first wheel, just got it recently. In FWD hot hatches I can drive fine, but give me a RWD A class car and I cannot take a corner. I’m ready to throw the whole setup in the bin.

I asked my wife to count rewinds for me last night. Ten laps on maple valley reverse with the BMW M2…72 rewinds to get through the race. Almost every time it was from sudden uncontrollable snap oversteer that sent me flying off the track after I straightened out of a corner.

Tried same race with controller, zero rewinds, came first against Pro drivatars with assists off.

Then I tried Project Cars with the wheel and I could drive fine. This games wheel support is porked.

There is an adjustment period with the wheel. Some cars work better than others. But I think you’ve got something configured wrong. I also have G29. With the proper logitech profiler settings, combined with the correct FFB settings, in-game, it can feel great. Some of this is subjective. But, there are some key things that you have to watch out for.

  1. unplug your controller, if you haven’t already. I’ve seen weird behavior with my G29, when a controller is connected.
  2. use “normal” steering, not simulation. Simulation is currently broken with a wheel. For the most part, all of the extra filters/magic that happens with “normal” and a controller is removed anyway, when you use a wheel. So, stick to “normal”.
  3. Make sure the G29 is connected to a USB2.x port, and not a USB3.x port. There are some issues with that device when connected to USB3.x. In case you aren’t aware, the USB3.x ports are usually colored blue. avoid those.

Settings.

In Logitech Profiler I have:

Use Special Force Feedback Device Settings ← checked

Overall Effects Stength: 100%
Spring Effect Strength: 0%
Damper Effect Strength: 0%

Enable Centering Spring ← unchecked

Use Special Steering Wheel Settings ← checked
Report Combined Pedals ← unchecked

Degrees Of Rotation: 900

Use Special Game Settings ← checked
Allow Game to Adjust Settings ← checked

← some of these above will be overridden by game settings. But I’ve had good luck with these

Forza 7 Wheel Advanced Game Settings
Options\Controller\Input Options[F]Advanced

Steering Axis Deadzone Inside: 0
Steering Axis Deadzone Outside: 95
Acceleration Axis Deadzone Inside: 1
Acceleration Axis Deadzone Outsize: 95
Deceleration Axis Deadzone Inside: 3
Deceleration Axis Deadzone Outside: 95
Clutch Axis Deadzone Inside: 5
Cluth Axis Deadzone Outside: 999,999,999
Vibration Scale: 40
Force Feedback Scale: 90
Steering Sensitivity: 100
Steering Linearity: 40
Force Feedback Understeer: 40
Force Feedback Minimum Force: 90
Wheel Damper Scale: 20
Center Spring Scale: 10

Try those, and see if handles any better. If you do make adjustments. I recommend only changing one slider at a time, and by no more than 10%. Also do at least a full lap, before making further adjustments.

Thanks for the advice on settings, I’ll give them a go.

I don’t want to give the impression that I think there’s anything specifically wrong with the handling or the way the wheel works, I think it’s fine, just really tough to get to grips with for a noob like me. Just to clarify though, when you say, ‘For the most part, all of the extra filters/magic that happens with “normal” and a controller is removed anyway, when you use a wheel. So, stick to “normal”’ does that include stuff like stronger TC, STM and ABS? Because that’s really the difference I’m wondering about - the fact that with those things on I can basically throw a car around with a controller and not have to worry about spinning or locking up, but with a wheel with those things on it seems to become a lot easier to spin or lock the brakes.

The learning curve is steep.

The settings are something we have been exploring for years and it’s a proper Alice in Wonderland, rabbit hole that you plunge into trying to learn.

It took me maybe a year to properly match my times with a controller, due to many false starts.

It could be quicker for you. It could be longer.

You need to expect a fair bit of pain for a while.

But man it can really be worth it if you stick with it.

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What I did notice from watching people on YouTube with a wheel, is that they really throw the thing around, wildly turning side to side just a little off centre to correct a slide. I also got my wife to film me racing and I noticed my movements were quite slow. This probably has to do with the fact that I’m not quite finished building my PVC racing rig and it isn’t all fully glued together yet. So it moves a bit if I get too rough. I think I’m subconsciously holding back because of this.

So watch good racers using a wheel on YouTube and watch what they do. It helped me. I’m going to try be a bit faster with my reacting movements, it seems once in a slide I can’t catch the car, and on the controller what I do (a lot of it is subconscious muscle memory so you have to really think about what you are doing), is wiggle the stick back and forth to catch it. On the wheel I tend to go deer in the headlights and freeze. I will try to really yank the wheel back and forth to catch the slide next time and see if that helps.

What doesn’t help is that you don’t properly feel the grip through the force feedback. This was immediately apparent upon trying Project Cars right after Forza 7, and I noticed I was better mainly because I was reacting to the “feel” of the FFB and not so much what I saw visibly happening on track, whereas with Forza it was more a reaction to what I was seeing than feeling.

I’m on Xbox One by the way. I have Forza 7 on PC but too much effort to move the racing rig into PC room…

Forza 7 having awful wheel support (in comparison to other recent racing games) certainly doesn’t help in this situation.

Try to lower the degrees of rotation so it’s easy to recover spins, i personally use 360° and don’t use sim steering with wheel since it’s bugged.

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Gandalf3001:

The wheel - any wheel - has a learning curve, and I suggest you start with slower cars until you have a feel for controlling them. Do NOT worry about winning, that’s the worst thing you can do. Only concentrate on how the wheel feels to you and that you’re able to do what you want to do with it.

There are several threads already existing here for suggestions and what works for some people but not others. Remember, you will have your own preferences, so read and work with the suggestions for YOUR own preferences.

First, learn to Search on these forums. See the blank rectangle with a magnifying glass on the right in the upper-right corner? That is the Search area, and clicking on the magnifying glass will give you a Search area: https://forums.forza.net/turn10_search.aspx?search=#0|5 Select the Forza Motorsport 7 Discussion and enter “wheel settings” in the Posts line. You’ll get five pages of results with information, suggestions and some other links to check read and try.

Keep in mind that being in control is primary, keep track of what settings you have tried, and what you adjust. Sometimes we “think” we should be able to go flat out through a corner, and we just don’t realize that corner is really a 60-mile-per-hour turn an not 70-100 mph. Slow in, fast out, and manage your cornering so you’re ready to attack whatever follows. You’ll do fine, but don’t think for a minute FM7 vehicles will drive like GTA or other slam-bang “racing” games.

Uh huh. I have read many of those posts. They mostly seem to be about finding settings for maximum realism, maximum feel in the force feedback, and so on, not about how a noob like me might go about finding settings that are best for maximum ease and accessibility. Also I have not seen elsewhere an answer to my specific question about whether ABS/TC/STM settings are different between controller and wheel. It’s probably that question has indeed been asked, I guess. Apologies if my additional post caused intolerable clutter in this forum.

As everyone says, it’s a pretty steep learning curve. The controller is way more forgiving. Having said that, the wheel is more rewarding and immersive. RWD is going to be more tricky and higher HP car doubly so.
I echo the idea of working on slower lower class cars and building up to super cars. I also prefer the lesser rotation and usually run 360 deg as well. Hang in there.

I didn’t read all of the “advice” posts, but I have a G920 and it took me some time to get used to it as well. I will add some of my tips (which probably have a lot of repeats).

  1. Use “Normal” Steering
  2. Turn “Traction Control” ON, and leave it on… forever (don’t listen to the hard core racers)
  3. “Stability Control”, ON or OFF, it doesn’t make that big of a difference, but since it doesn’t cost anything, you may as well use it.
  4. Start with lower class cars, use E and D Class to get familiar with the wheel. Slowly progress to higher classes.

NOTE: On my G920 (don’t know for sure if it applies to yours) every time I start the XBOX, I need to “pump” all of the peddles two or three times before I go into the game. If I don’t do this, the brakes will respond poorly (lock up a lot).

Good Luck!

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I’ve bought a wheel in March this year after playing for more than 30 years with joysticks and controllers.
It took me more than half a year to be as fast and faster with the wheel. It has not been easy to get used to it, but the fun factor was increased 200% and more from the first day, even l was more than 3 seconds slower when l started.

You have to learn the total different feeling of the car and the road and that the steering input isn’t filtered as with a controller. You have to use throttle and brake more sensible.
But the most important is that you try to find YOUR wheel setup. With this everything stands and falls. It may not be easy to find out how a setting affects the wheel behaviour, but it is absolutely necessary to understand which slider does what.
And it also makes a difference what game you are playing. Every game affords it’s own (ingame) setup and sometimes it takes hours and days to find the right one for every single game.

Also it will take a large amount of time to get used to the total different driving. With the wheel you will notice that the steering looks and feels more smoother and less angular/ edgy as with a controller.

I know it all sounds difficult and not that easy and from time to time it can be very challenging because a wheel in comparison to a controller isn’t only plug and play.
But it is absolutely worth and rewarding to invest the time into getting used to your new wheel. I honestly don’t wanna go back to a controller.

As other have said, its a step learning curve.

I played with Joysticks forever, until I got Forza 6 and several months in I made the jump to a wheel. It took me weeks to get faster.

Even when i played Forza 7, I sucked, but it just took me a few races to get used to using the wheel again… what i mean is, if I play a lot and then stop playing forza for a few weeks or so and go back to it… it takes me a few races to get used to the wheel again.

I also use TC/Stability

What DgitalHype said about Normal/Sim steering is absolutely false.

I would also leave all your Logitech settings alone apart from raising the force multiplier - you can get extremely good results this way. I’ve managed to get the game close to the holy grail of Assetto Corsa for me, which is a massive improvement over stock, which felt as numb as Project Cars 2.

My comments regarding the “stuff” form normal being disabled, when you use a wheel came directly from a Turn10 devleoper, username: T10Driver, whom works on FFB. He explained this in response to questions from other wheel users, specifically regarding the use of “normal” vs. “simulation” steering on wheel input.

However, my comments regarding Simulation being broken on wheel comes from multiple other Forza veterans (in that same massive FFB thread) indicating problems with it. Maybe that is fixed now, or they were all wrong.

https://forums.forza.net/turn10_postsm773592_posts.aspx#post_773592

Quote from T10Driver (Turn10 staff)

“There are multiple systems layered together to create Normal steering. Forza is known for being controllable and natural on a gamepad and these system are a major component of that feeling. While I won’t explain every system involved I will say that Simulation Steering turns these systems off. I’ll also confirm that the input layers of these systems are turned off any time you use a wheel, regardless of the steering setting.”

There is alot of information in that thread from folks that really know thier FFB, including comments from Turn10 staff members that go into detail with “back and forth” q & a between forum members and Turn10 staff.

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Some of these ‘systems’ are tied to the steering modes, some are tied to input device. It does not say that ALL systems are turned off when you use a wheel, only input layers, if you want all systems turned off you also need to use sim steering.

If you don’t like using it that’s fine, but dont tell people it’s broken, especially when the developer never said it was broken.

Simulation steering does not “simulate real life steering”, I’ve never driven a IRL performance car (Corvettes, Ferrarri 458 Italia, BMW 135i, many others) that drive like the cars in FM with simulation steering. I think they should rename “Simulation Steering” to “Arcade Steering”.

Well done on making the jump!! To echo many others sentiments: It takes time…a lot of time (ie 3-6 months) to feel comfortable let alone fast. With each passing year I’ve gotten quicker and nowadays languish Top 10-50 across P Class. The first few years though (Fm3, Fm4) I was slow, it took time.

I’ve driven exclusively with a wheel for years, put me on a controller and i’m anywhere from 5-10 secs slower per lap

I’d recommend if you’ve got any previous forza’s to go and have a play with your wheel on them first. I think the wheel menu in 7 is overwhelming for new users, far too many parameters to change and get used to. Stick in a copy of 5 or 6 in and you’ll see you can only really change the degrees of rotation or the feedback strength, have a play on them games and you’ll soon get a natural feel, start the force feedback low at 30% and increase it up the from there (if you so desire). Then move back over onto 7 and try to mimic the feel, go on from there.

As for technique…

My mantra has always been ‘drive to minimize your mistakes’. You don’t want to be fighting the wheel, if you’re constantly fighting against it you’ll soon tire out and you’ll lose all the subtle nuances the wheel gives you. Some cars are much more labour intensive than others. I only race P Class so can’t comment on others, but after 10 laps in the Porsche 962 I feel it! 10 Laps in the Jag XJR-9 and it’s very light in comparison, this translates into you developing very nuanced ways to handle each car.

The age old debate of wheel vs controller is pointless in my eyes…I see equal amounts of players in the top 50 on either. Now I think there’s a grain of truth in saying it’s harder to get to the same level on a wheel as quickly, but once you’re there, it’s no different. That said, the cars handle differently across the two spectrum’s. A controller ‘tends’ to always give a much sharper corner turn in, and much more forgiving on the curbs. The wheel comes into to it’s own mid corner-exit, as you’re able to fine tune the driving line out the corner more effectively. You have a much wider range of movement to specifically dial in the perfect line out of the corner. On corner turn in, that wide range makes the sweet spot much harder to hit (remember you’re coming into the corner fast and sometimes under braking) compared to movement on the controller, which is also additionally compensated for by the game (think trying to cram 360 degrees of rotation into a 30 degree range of motion of a thumbstick).

Don’t underestimate time to be found under braking, most of my laptime I gain over people online I find is in the braking zone.

Get the braking spot on is crucial to setting up the rest of the corner, you don’t want to be fighting the wheel through the corner, you need to be smooth and in control as you hit that apex. This is what i mean by driving to minimize your mistakes. Every lap by every driver has mistakes, no matter how imperceptible they are. Ragging the car may look good, but it’s a time killer, you feel this through the wheel. If you’re fighting…you’re slow.

My final thing would be to say adjust your brake bias rearwards (ie 53% rearwards), I find that slight oversteer under braking helps pitch the car into the corner; whilst going through the corner you work out/dissipate the chassis stress and tire flex, via tiny micro ‘counter steering’ corrections. The micro corrections you make will eventually become automatic and unconsciously carried out. I’d recommend setting your brake pressures to 160% +, that way you don’t need to use the full range of travel on your brake pedal, I find hitting the exact braking sweet spot so much easier this way.

Best of luck with it

I’m running:
Thrustmaster Tx
Ferrari F1 Rim
T3PA Pedals
270 DOR
180% + Braking Pressures
Typically 53% Rearward Bias