Completely Frustrated with my Wheel Skills. Please Help

Ugh. I’m so close to throwing my wheel at my television. I’ve tried the settings recommended in the FFB is it fixed thread as well as a bunch of others I’ve found online. I was doing ok with a C class Honda Civic, but today I tried a B class BMW as well as some track toys and I swear I can’t even take a simple turn without having my back end swing out and send me into a spin out. I have no idea what I’m doing wrong to cause this either so have no clue how to correct it. What’s worse, no matter how many descriptions of the advanced settings I read I still have no idea how pneumatic trail align torque, mechanical trail align torque, wheel damper, etc relate to either what I’m telling the car to do, what the car is doing, or what I need to do in order to correct it. I’m not even sure I really understand what all of that stuff means even though I’ve stared at those wheel alignment/trail diagrams for what feels like forever. Plus, it’s incredible how different the various recommended settings are that people swear by. Some have options tuned at minimum that others have at max. Some say always use normal steering while others swear that simulation is best if you’re using a wheel. I feel like I need to be Dick Trickle to even begin to understand what I’m doing wrong or need to work on.
With a regular controller I would say that I was at least a better than average player. With the stick if my car started to spin out I’d just nudge it in the opposite direction. I mostly played with no assists except normal steering and maybe traction control if I was driving something like an Indy car or a Hypercar that I’d maxed out the HP and torque on. I just recently started playing with manual and clutch too, after having always just used manual w/out clutch. With the wheel I haven’t even thought of trying clutch yet and feel like I probably should turn on traction control as well as stability assist, something I’ve never even used, since I can’t even make it around anything but an oval track without multiple spin outs.
I’m not giving up yet, I really do want to be able to play using the wheel and pedals, but I just don’t feel like I’m making any progress. Any suggestions? I know it’s hard to tell without actually seeing what I’m doing, but any clues as to why I can’t even take a turn at decent speed without spinning out?
One specific question I have is how much mighty the recommended settings change from one make of wheel to another? I’ve got the Thrustmaster TMX Pro with the three pedal setup. The settings listed on the thread I mentioned are for a TS500 RS I believe. Does that make a difference. If so what wheels would have similar recommended settings?
Thanks. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

All I can say is practice, practice, practice. I was also above average with a controller, but when I finally made the change to wheel, I almost gave up. I was so scared of taking turns because even the slightest hint of oversteer would end up with me spinning out. And this was in every game I played.

Good thing is that I’m not into competitive playing and just play for personal enjoyment and relaxation. So I didn’t feel the pressure to get better. But I wanted to at least be able to hold a drift and countersteer correctly.

I took me about a year to finally get used to it. What I thought was impossible for me, now I’m doing it instinctively.

Well… maybe I’ll start with a few suggestions… because the game is much better with the wheel. I’ve been using a wheel since Forza 3 on the 360. I have the TM TX 300

First is your wheel connected to a PC… if so maybe update drivers. Mine for my XBone is not, so my drivers are the delivered drivers from TM. Below I’ve only listed the wheel setting not accelerator and brake… this is simple enough for your preference. Also, if you’re a clutch user… use “B” button as the foot clutch on FM7 is not effective

  1. I have my wheel rotation set to 640 degrees for FM7. Do not use 900 maybe between 540 and 640 is best to try.
  2. Steering Axis Deadzone inside = 0
  3. Steering Axis Deadzone outside = 95
  4. Vibration Scale = 83
  5. Force feedback Scale= 45
  6. Wheel Rotation Angle = 640
  7. Steering Linearity = 45
  8. Force feedback Understeer = 55
  9. Force feedback Minimum Force = 80
  10. Wheel Damper Scale = 10
  11. Center Spring Scale = 0

Next… you should first run with ABS, TC on and Normal Steering, Sim Steering on a wheel is more understeer than Sim Steering in FM7 IMHO This will help you focus more on steering and not the pedal control… switch these off later after you’re comfortable with the wheel.

When testing, on a track say like Road Atlanta (use a shorter track, not a long track) and take it slowly working your way up to be faster. Focus on braking points and Apex. Curbs on many tracks in FM7 are not your friend… so be careful getting on them for now.

Like the post above… practice… they say the fast guys are on GP… so what, playing this game on a pad IHO is not the same immersion as on a wheel.

Finally, I’ve noticed that if I start XBox with my wheel it doesn’t feel the same as when I start with the GP and then switch over once in the menu screen. FM7 does a good job of switching from GP to the wheel.

Let me know what you think and maybe we can go from there with other issues.

Good luck… and don’t give up… RKip

Hello:
I also use a TMX Pro 3 pedal wheel setup. the above suggestions is good.
You should check this link out that’s in the “Tuners Lounge” on this Forum: Each of the different wheel settings is explained.
https://forums.forza.net/turn10_postst123343_Make-Your-Wheel-Feel-Real---Wheel-Settings-explained-FM7.aspx

Do not use Simulation Steering and I recommend “Manual” Trans.
I do not use the Clutch pedal at all. I have my DOR at 600 degrees.
When I Use “Manual with Clutch” i have the B button set as the Clutch.

I’ve been racing with a wheel since Forza 1.
For most people, the wheel is a little slower than with the Controller.

I expect to be 2 or more seconds per lap slower on Road courses.

Ovals are a lot easier with the wheel as long as you turn smooth.
I have a couple of replays posted if you want to watch my driving. Just search my gamertag. "EZT TomCat7

Good Luck

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Like above,its all practice,keep at the low level cars,one day it all clicks and you never look back,FYI,i ended up throwing my 1st wheel in the closet,i felt like you,dug it out again and been a wheel user since!!!

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Try to decrease the degree of rotation, when you start using wheel it’s the easy way to recover car when it spins, and yes as said before only practice can make you better. Just don’t give up.

It might take weeks.

It might take months.

It might take years.

This might come across as harsh, but if you don’t have the patience to learn, sell your wheel now. The fact that this is the third thread you have started on this topic in the last week tells me you likely don’t have the patience.

Else, practice, research, learn, read, watch and practice more.

The FFB is it fixed thread was populated by people who have been doing this for years. You want to fast track your learning, take your time to read and more importantly, understand.

Read and re-read and figured stuff out. You have the web and Google and YouTube. Seriously.

I had no idea what pneumatic trail or mechanical trail was before I read it in that thread.

I took the time to learn it and it has paid off for me.

I don’t care what anybody says, normal and sim steering are not made for any particular device, you can use either on a pad or a wheel. If your having problems with car control use normal steering, it’s a bit more forgiving (I made a demonstration here)

One thing I have noticed with forza is quite severe amounts of lift off oversteer on a wheel, if your finding the rear end breaking loose on entry/mid corner this is likely the cause, you need to hold a small amount of throttle to keep the rear end planted. The other thing that is difficult on the wheel is trying to find the correct steering angle needed for each corner, on a gampad this is pretty much done for you, on a wheel you need to do it yourself. If you do a few laps with the telemetry open on the tyre friction page take note of what you feel through the wheel when you see your front tyres around 100% friction. This is where you want to aim for peak turning performance, using the vibration setting will help you be able to feel when your getting close to this point, as well as the FFB understeer setting.

Mechanical trail and pneumatic trail are simply how much leverage the lateral force on the tyres have over the steering (trail is the distance/leverage). Pneumatic is tyre, mechanical is suspension/caster trail, the mechanical trail is static and doesn’t change (more lateral load(g-force)=more steering load). Pneumatic trail is a bit more dynamic and changes depending on what is happening to the tyre (the tyre is like a spring and is slightly elastic so as it deforms under different conditions the trail distance can change) this is what gives you a bit of detail of what the grip level is.

the best way to learn is to learn to drive with a wheel with the racing-game which is known for the best ffb / physics on the market…and then you come back to fm7 :slight_smile:

i’m driving with wheel since a decade, but for fm7 i use stability-control which i never used before. and btw, toycars are one of the worst class to drive (with wheel?). they spin out very easily. you can play with the DOR, but actually 900° is the default and the game (should) manage the correct DOR for the cars. with 900° it’s harder to catch slides but smoother to drive.

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Noticed that! I went over to Raceroom and set up and now few months later in FM7 I feel like I am ice skating. I think FM7 needs some work for wheel use however when I first got the wheel my times dropped quite a bit and over a few months got better and exceeded them after a few million laps.

actually, i was kinda surprised how good wheel-support was for a ‘console-game’. i reckon playing f1 2016 with wheel, it was a nightmare :open_mouth:

ice-skating nails it. without SC it’s, depending on the cars, even harder than any sim i played before, especially if you want to drive fast against braindead AI ^^ Those cool Porsches, without SC on Dubai f.e.g., no chance. you either drive a ‘warm-up’ lap or you can see yourself hitting the ‘rewind’ button constantly or watch the race from the last place.

What i really miss is the road-feel, the understeer-effect and the correct DOR for the cars. The other stuff, is more phsyics-related/assists related. A bit less SC should be driving without SC, actually.

I feel you mate, as have exactly the same issue. Playing racing games well before Forza and bout me self a wheel about a month ago or so and omg… i felt like i couldnt drive and could not catch a slide. It would just end up in the wall.
As mention above best thing is to practice and more practice with lower class cars (C, B, A) and to decrees the steering angle as also suggested. All of the other setting its all personal preference and best way to do it is to race a lap or two and change 1 setting at the time till it feels right for you and then repeat with other settings
. It will take some time but you will get there eventually. Just dont give up.

Thanks everyone. All feedback is helpful and greatly appreciated.
I’m sticking with it and will until I get it down. I love the more realistic, actual driving feel I get when playing with the wheel and pedals. I did some races in the Iconic Sport Compact class (in the D PI ranks) and did much better. I think though that I may, for the first time ever since getting into Forza, turn the rewind feature on. That way when I spin out in a corner I can immediately go back and try a different approach and hopefully be able to see what I was doing the first time that caused it compared to what I do when I get it right.

RMKip455, I’ll try your settings next time I’m on and let you know how they work for me.

Raindancer, Thanks. I am using web , google, and YouTube. I figured I’d also add in advice from the forums too. Don’t worry, I’m not giving up. Continuing to ask/search for answers is me working through it. If I’d asked once and them was never heard from again then that’d be me giving up.

Thanks again to everyone who replied!

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Not sure if it applies to your Thrustmaster TMX, but my TX has a control panel for firmware updates to be used on the PC with the wheel connected. I would check on Thrustmaster’s website for any updates available. To me, getting the TX properly set up first on the PC and then carried over to the Xbox One for FM7 is a key, so you need not make too many adjustments in-game. For instance, if you prefer having a 900 rotation on the wheel, you need to make sure that matches in-game (or whatever rotation you select).

IF you have the PC control panel, you can use that to check the Thrustmaster site for any updates in the wheel firmware. You then adjust the settings (according to your “research” of course, and your preferences) with the wheel’s USB connection to the PC, and use the “update firmware” utility to set the items on the wheel. One thing (at least on the TX) to check is setting your brake and pedals (three times each) before entering the game EACH TIME. That way they’re calibrated properly, and if you use the paddles w/shifting, you can (at least on the TX) use the MODE button & “A” button on the wheel for auto-clutch.

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An issue I had that took a long time for me to figure out is sound and I put delay. If I run the game directly to my TV the delay is pretty minimal but if I go to my TV and then use the HDMI “ARC” to return the sound to my stereo receiver for my 7.2 surround then there is a delay. Mi e was 23 ms.
When this is happening you could be that late on reacting to the slide. With the delay most of your wheel inputs are being applied late ( after the slide has happened. We as drivers use the sound to assist us in when to counter steer in a slide…,tire squeal especially. If this is off you will be fine in a strait live but under heavy driving in corners accuracy is important.
There are sites on you tube to help match sound to the video.
Another thing you can try is hook up a pair of headphones directly to the Xbox via optical cable and then match your stereo delay to the headphones as the headphones should have very little delay. Most stereos have a sound delay setting somewhere so the lips match when a person is talking.
I had tried many thing and finally found this. It makes things like rumble strips so much more accurate. They used to have the delay so about 1/2 way over them I would hear the and would continue to hear them after I was past the rumble strips.
Hope this helps you or anyone else with issues.
I would give you my wheel settings but a totally different wheel as I have the Fanatec Clubsport 2 so my settings are probably very different than what you need.

I think your biggest issue might be your level of expectation. Don’t be afraid to load up on assists (especially STM, as this has helped me a lot) and try to see it as a new game which you have to learn all over again. I think this approach has helped me get somewhat competent with my wheel (in about 3 weeks), and I am thoroughly enjoying the experience.

Good luck and stick at it!!

OP its not you its forza. There is a learning curve to using a wheel however… because of the subpar implementation of ffb it is much less intuitive than other games.

Dan the dartman, you shouldnt really need to rely on sound as much as you are but you are to make up for the subpar ffb. Honestly in a game like pcars or iracing i can race completely without sound and have similar pace because you can feel what is going on.

What year is it?

Learn on any other game that does wheel far better. Assetto, raceroom, pcars, euro truck, dirt rally, any of them.

Forza will (IMO) never fix it, been like this forever, nothing has fundamentally changed anywhere over 12 years.

If you bought a wheel just for forza, return it.

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Nonsense! I’ve played this game starting from F5 and allways with TX wheel. The key for me in this game has allways been to use low dor, like 270 both in wheel and in game, sim steering and powerful ffb and offcourse latest firmware… Finally in F7 there are lots of sertings for wheel. This game is so rewarding when played with wheel. Just remember not to brake in corners and smooth accelerate out of them. Learn to use brake and oversteer when entering corners -explained: when you make a short and sharp braking, the car weight is for a short moment on front wheels and you are able to throw the car in the corner, like wrc rally cars do. And I guess you know, but do use left foot for braking… and most of all practise a lot. I myself try to find tunes that allow you to turn the car with throttle… Don’t loose your faith with the wheel! Only thing that you lack with wheel compared to cotroller is the feel the lost of grip when braking and at wheel spin, but you can live with it…

LOL, he knows all the ins and outs of forza and a wheel, and he knows how to drive, he is one of the fastest wheel users I know.

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