My favourite parts about racing games is the audio and it’s design. Forza has always had some great sounding cars in general over the years. Great exhaust notes,engine notes,turbo/bov effects and supercharger whines.(still room for improvement but great overall).
However, one aspect that really needs some attention is the transmission modeling/simulation and other related things like better implementation of accel and decel loading. At the moment, the straight cut gear whine in Forza doesn’t really sound or behave in a realistic manner. When coming off the accelerator then back on doesn’t sound or behave in a realistic manner.
So, notice the the real life and PC games straight cut gear whine. Also notice how the physics are implemented in accordance. Notice how the gearbox oscillates and judders when going through the gears as well as when coming back on throttle.(like there’s actually a racing flywheel simulated). Raceroom in particular has probably the best driveline flex model seen in a racing game to date.
The pCars version (I know, different cars but point still stands) certainly to my ears sounds more “racier” at least when off throttle and decel effects are concerned.
Anyway, I could go on and on but Ill leave it here. I certainly hope that Nick Wiswell and his audio team along with the physics team can deliver something special come Forza 7 time!
I believe this has to do with where the sound is recorded. I think they said that in pcars the sound is recorded in multiple locations and applied depending on view you’ve selected. I think forza is done from the outside of the car somewhere.
Also if one is frame mounted or hardmounted somewhere it is going to pick up additional vibration in which the floating version does not.
If Turn 10 wants to continue labelling this title a simulator, they’re going to need to evolve because other games are really starting to blow the top off realism when it comes to racing.
Speaking of, does Forza have a “racing line” on its track surfaces or does the entire width of the track provide the same amount of grip?
Given that we have static time and weather, I would presume it’s the latter and that in terms of pure grip it doesn’t matter what part of the road you’re on.
Great thread… good to see people actually care about proper sound modelling in a game that aim to be realistic and authentic.
I completely share your concerns on this - a LOT of room is there for improvement. FM was already off to a good start in terms of sound from FM2… I feel they need to take longer strides and make more progress in sound, not just visuals and physics. Next to physics, sound is the most important element in a game, especially one that attempts to simulate actual car behavior.
Wiswell isn’t a part of T10 by the way; he was hired by Polyphony after FM5. Perhaps that’s one reason why initially, FM6 sounded so vastly different than FM5.
I think you guys are forgetting that forza has up to 4 times as many cars as these other games. I think sound is a very important part of a racing game, but you have to have realistic expectations as to how much time, resources and disc space can be taken up by each of those cars.
This is true for the different engine sounds, but the straight cut gear whine is basically the same in all cars. Forza 4 had much more gear whine if the car had a race transmission.
Correct and I really miss those. The cars in F5 and 6 exhibit no gear whine at all when you upgrade to race transmissions. I wonder why that is… are there different kinds of straight-cut race trannys that have a whine and those without?
The whine comes from the gears being straight cut. And as long as a race transmission has straight cut gears, which they usually do because there isn’t any axial load, there should be a gear whine.
I remember reading an interview with either Forza’s sound engineer or Dan G and they talked about making the decision to reduce certain sounds including noisy transmissions.
I agree the sound is not right. However it would mean T10 making a bespoke gearbox for each car on the game to get the proper recording right? That would be great for myself and my company, as I make racing transmissions. But the budget for the game is going to be massive because I know their not cheap. That’s not going to happen! But it would be nice to have the whining a bit more realistic sounding!
Another game that has had a better trans whine and driveline physics implementation is something that you would never expect to actually incorporate. I’m talking about Need For Speed Pro Street!
Put it this way, if you put any car in that game in 3rd gear for example and try to take off, not only does the car struggle to take off because lack of tourque/rpms, but the actual transmission judders and bounces as a result of the aforementioned. Try doing that in real life and you get the exact same result. No other game that I know of has done that. And that is an arcade game!
Anyway, as I’ve previously mentioned, Forza has some great engine/exhaust notes. It’s just that most cars sound completely naked and behave quite unrealistically without the transmission-engine loading/whining and physics overall.
Yes, it will be a massive job to get this right in the game because of the multitude of vehicles. And yes, I want these things implemented to more than just the available race cars (as in I want any car we can and have upgraded to race spec to be included), but something needs to be done in order for my favourite franchise to actually start sounding and behaving more in tune with reality.
I wont ramble on anymore as I’m sure Turn 10 knows this and knows what needs to be done(i hope, lol)
I’ll just leave you with one more video for inspiration:
Honestly speaking, I’ve been dreaming of the day when T10 puts everything they got into the SOUND - perhaps do something like they did for physics, forming a partnership with Pirelli or Calspan. Maybe the same should be done with a major racing simulator manufacturer to get the sound spot on for road and upgraded cars.
I know this for a fact: T10 are capable of a heckuva lot more than meets the eye, they probably have a good reason for holding back. If I look back all the way to FM2, frankly the game has made good strides in terms of improving sound but not quite the level of detail most fans were expecting.
Next to physics, sound really is everything in a realistic racing game, and again, the developer knows this I’m sure. HUGE expectations from FM7, here’s hoping it’s not a letdown.
Of course. Regarding the transmission whine I was happier with Forza 4 and you are happier with Forza 6. I guess the perfect game would have a lot of settings so that everybody could adjust it the way they want.
I agree, but I’d prefer they get their exhaust sounds much, much more refined than what they are now. Some/a lot of the cars are already great, but there are some that are just terrible, and nowhere near what they should sound like. Just for a single example, the stock Y-block 292 V8 in the F100 on the game sounds nowhere near what it should sound like. I’ve heard a million of them. There are also plenty of these trucks in existence still too, so it shouldn’t be that hard to do.
But yeah, the transmission issues (also the shifting animation) need addressing in the future. They’ve done just an amazing job with this game. Like someone else said, with the sheer volume of vehicles in this game it’s not easy to get them all perfect, and that’s fine. I’d rather have a nice compromise like they’ve done, so we can have as many cars as possible, and they improve the realism (and number of cars) over time with each installment.
One thing that is a current glitch in the game that I can’t figure out why it exists, and has been a problem since at least FM4, is the shifting in replays. If you’re shifting like a pro in the race (fast, but not scratching the gears), the replay on almost all cars just sounds like you weren’t using the clutch at all. It takes a full second to shift and you get the scratching sound along with the engine beating on the rev limiter. It’s horrible and it ruins all of my great race replays.
It doesn’t do this with every car, but probably 80-90 percent of them.
Oh I completely agree - there is a lot of potential here, and I really hope to see the developers pay more attention and allocate resources as well as budget towards capturing unique exhaust sounds before and after upgrades for all cars, not just handpick a select few and give them the royal audio treatment. I’m sure the devs understand how Forza needs to be unique and not turn into a GT-fest of simply upping cars and tracks with every game. High track variety is great, though having too many cars translates into hits and misses when it comes to sound, something we the fans, really don’t want to be disappointed with in future. Forza has a GOOD thing going in terms of sound, but it is time to take it to the next level in terms of authenticity, accuracy and sheer detail.
The shifting sound problem in replays has actually been around since FM3 - it is a glitch when you use man/w clutch. The line bounces off the rev limiter even though you were doing 100% clean shifts during a race. At times, it leads to a damaged tranny, but you can’t tell until it’s too late, because you hear none of that rev limiter bouncing during a race… unless you’re really terrible with using clutch on a controller. Frankly, I just do without it, it’s useless and feels kind of silly to try and mimic clutch use on a controller. Still cool to have the option. Perhaps an option in future to adjust steering speed and sensitivity? hint hint
You are right my friend - honestly, I would like to see the same improvements in sound as we’ve seen in visuals and physics. And this is not an Xbox vs PC limitation. The only limiting factor here is the developers creativity and resource/budget allocation. It is all possible believe me, but it’s a time-consuming and expensive process. Perhaps by the time F7 or 8 comes out, we’ll have ALL cars sounding 100% accurate with and without upgrades. Oh I dream of the day!
Interesting post! The sound department hasn’t been much improved since FM3 in my opinion. I don’t know much about hardware and programming, but I’d guess there are limitations for what you can do on an Xbox compared to PC. Like, how many audio files that can be played at once and stuff.
