FORZA DEVS, READ THIS: We are sick and tired of the lack of effort from the devs put into this game

One thing is for sure. I am over buying content blind on nothing more than promises and being told to wait and see.

These guys had a good thing going, but that trust has worn so thin. Especially with the FM8 trailor. That was a gut punch.

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I hope The Crew: Motorfest, and TDU: Solar Crown - If it ever releases - Give Forza Horizon a much needed run for its money because that’s the only thing that will force any kind of change… And even that isn’t guaranteed due to Horizon’s large install base and mass market appeal.

It’s obvious TCM is targeting the Horizon crowd, so I hope Ivory Tower (whose devs worked on the original TDU, and is why TCM takes place on Hawaii) is given as much resources and backing as Ubisoft can spare (they’re in pretty bad financial shape) and they really bring it to Horizon, because we need an alternative, open world driving game that presents enough competition to make PGG start to care about the series again.

TCM is apparently going the simcade route and will even have wheel support on launch if their Insider video is any indication of the kind of game they’re currently developing?

The same thing applies to TDU:SC, if and whenever it releases as far as providing much needed competition in the open world driving game genre.

Having two, open world car games competing against Horizon would be an ideal situation moving forward, but I’m not holding my breath for Solar Crown, unfortunately, considering we’ve seen no game play at all in the last two, three years since it was announced.

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TC2 was so close to being one of my favourites. Sadly I play on a platform where Platinum is too easy for me to cheese, so it’s just like the FH playlist and the physics make the racing less rewarding.

I got special ugly green wall tires that gave me an advantage that others who mised them couldn’t buy too but I love the idea of the summit and how it’s implemented into the world.

It was so cool doing runs with people and having stuff like collisions and drafting. That game has a really cool vibe to it. It feels like a functioning world too.

I hope FH can take some elements from that, rather than other games doing it from Forza and reaping the benefit, but what will be will be.

It don’t seem like many of them are involved with this forum too much other than ManteoMax really :smiley:

Although i cant see this communication as them bogging down on everything and i think there might be some unrealistic expectations involved along the lines. Its not as if they’d have so much to say unless they’re addressing something very specific and this particular topic has turned into so many things. Like obviously they wont come here and get into conflicts just for the sake of communicating.

But sure they could address specific feedback and suggestions all over the forums. And how about Previously Considered Suggestions ? Its just an empty thread that basically says:

" …we’ll be using this thread to document the suggestions that we’ve considered but won’t be implementing into our games and when possible, we’ll also share the reasoning behind why that is the case. "

Last edited July22. I guess they wont be addressing feedback/suggestions?

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I kinda like how GT7 implemented “painting” in their game. If you buy a custom paint, you own it permanently. So you can custom paint every car in your garage without having to “buy” the paint a second time and it’s quick and easy to repaint a car. The only missing thing is stock paint options, so if you want to repaint your '69 Z/28, you will have to create the stripes yourself.

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I reckon it’s never going to get looked at now because most posts have drifted off topic.
But I guess all that the things that need to be pointed out to them have already been said, so what else are we left with to tell them about this particular game?

If they had addressed the relevant points early on and made some fixes or comments then we wouldn’t be at the stage now where discussing other games seems to dominate.

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Car models, licensing, playable modes such as the playlist, the PI system, AI and adjustable Forza aero are consistent and reasonable things to request further dialogue on. They’ve remained consistent in terms of player grievances.

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Agreed.
This is why we need to focus on the problems with this game otherwise even Max will tire of sifting through the posts to find anything relevant to send back to the Devs.

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There’s general consensus that climate change exists and tobacco can cause lung cancer. Both are facts even if you’ll find a certain percentage of studies that will tell you otherwise.

Maybe you’ve re-downloaded some of your designs and therfore have doubles in your inventory? I don’t know what your problem is but the number is 500. Trust me.

I think you’ve only uploaded 262 tunes.

I’m painting and tuning since FH4. I simply know what I’m talking about. I just try to give you an explaination. I’ve you don’t want to believe me. Your problem!

These particular issues are widely known across various forums, social media and Forza YouTube content creators when talking about racing games and Forza’s place in it.

It’s also why I don’t think PGG, or T10 will ever publicly acknowledge them because they’re major core functions, ironically, and not just minor bugs, or annoyances.

The best we can hope for is they silently acknowledge them internally and make a concerted effort to correct these glaring problems in the next iteration… Especially, if the claims T10 is building FM “from the ground up” with AI that doesn’t have to cheat to be competitive. This technology will hopefully be shared with PGG when they develop FH6.

Let’s also hope more competition in the open world driving genre emerges from different studios in the next few years to put pressure on PGG to produce a better game that gets back to the roots of Horizon, and it’s celebration of car culture.

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That’s the sad part - they don’t address the issues. But, as mentioned before, they seem to think they know better for what we want in a game and just bury their heads to the useful suggestions made by forum members.
I seriously doubt they’re bothering with the game themselves now so I expect nothing to improve in this iteration.

Can’t dispute that and definitely seems to be the only way they will listen to the players and up their game - no pun intended.

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Other games just need to have better physics.
Horizon is kind of cheating with the base of Motorsport to work with but they have it tuned just right. (Maybe not for when your car is in any position but right side up on a completely flat surface)
But older games just had better physics. Its bizarre. Its like the whole industry wants their vehicles to control like a mobile game.

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I think we shouldnt be too harsh towards TDU. Sure we havent seen almost anything. But im willing to give them a brake and not be too judgemental given that its their first modern TDU entry. And lets face it they’re not a big budget studio as Playground games/Turn10 or even Criterion or Ivory tower. WRC is a 39.99 full price game. And KT Racing will not be making WRC games and TDU is their sole focus now! So this is a game that is going to evolve over time and will have more entries in the coming years.

But i fear a lot of the racing community will act towards it as if it doesn’t have a forza horizon physics then its inherently a bad game. Just looking at how people react towards need for speed.

Not a very good handling = bad game, if its not an absolute 1:1 copy of underground 2/most wanted then its trash.
Horizon has mudded the waters so much that nothing outside of that genre can exist.
Except the crew 2 fanbois praising the game constantly even though it plays like a mobile game. They never say anything about the handling. And the game overall is so terrible in many other ways and wait if you say anything bad at all about it:
we-dont-do-that-here-black-panther

If the forza horizon playerbase flods TDU i bet it could turn disasterous with expectations that KT Racing is impossible to forfill.

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Agreed, I’ve said a few times on here that the NFS titles since the reboot in 2015 are inferior to FH, of course they are but I find them much easier to like purely because I got the feeling that the devs were trying so much harder than PG have from FH4 onwards.

Regarding the physics my criticism of them is just that they’ve all tried copying HP2010’s, but 2 things let them all down despite improvement in each game, they’re still not as tight + responsive as HP’s were and even if they was the environments Payback + Heat take place in aren’t made for it, HP2010’s map was designed perfectly for it’s physics with the mostly big sweeping turns, it suffers when in the more urban environments of those 2, I haven’t played Unbound yet so can’t comment.

But people should bear NFS in mind when we talk about PG, feeling like nobody is listening or even cares has been a thing for 4 1/2 years tops with FH, spare a thought for NFS fans who’ve been feeling like that for nearly 4 times that long, wanting another game on the level of U2 or MW only to get either decent but ultimately inferior titles or a completely random change of direction, Pro Street, Undercover, Shift, HP2010 then The Run from 2007-2011, it’s like EA just spun a roulette wheel for what type of game the next NFS would be in those years.

But like I say since the reboot I have gotten a feeling of genuine effort from the franchise, 2015’s story was cheesy beyond belief but getting real world people synonymous with car culture to not just do voice overs but actually appear in the live action cutscenes was inspired.

I mean who would you rather have in your game…

Rami or Magnus Walker?
Alejandra or Akira Nakai?
Jaimin or Ken Block (God rest his soul)?

Just something like that adds to a game’s world + sense of immersion even when you know that in the gameplay itself they will just be generic AI.

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I’ll never deny my physics snobbery, and KT Racing games are obviously inferior but I’m always willing to give them a shot if an effort to make it realistic was made and hey, at least KT racing tries.

Need for Speed doesn’t even bother trying anymore. It kind of sucks, because I loved the gameplay loop of NFS: Heat, but the physics were just so throwaway arcade ridiculousness I’d be just as well off playing Mario Kart.

My minimum bar for physics is that it has to turn from the front wheels like a machine and not from the center like a 5 year old playing with a toy, and braking for a corner needs to be a thing (no a last second e-brake doesn’t count and is in fact worse), and NFS fails miserably on both counts. It’s also why I never played The Crew or it’s sequel. A cursory look at review videos showed it didn’t meet that minimum bar either. And to be clear, I’m not really happy with the bare minimum either, but at least I’d be willing to give the game a shot.

I still have high hopes and a lot of interest for TDU: Solar Crown, just very little to no faith. I don’t want to get caught up in the game’s potential only to be disappointed, plus on top of that, as much as PGG frustrates me with their arbitrary, self-harming decisions… KT Racing is even worse. I hope they change for the better, but expecting them to is a fool’s gambit.

But neither TC or NFS is intended to be what you’re looking for physics-wise so I’m not sure why you’re talking like their physics are a complete failure, both do a reasonable job of the type of driving they go for, it just isn’t for you personally.

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A spot on assessment of game physics. Horizon physics also isn’t anywhere near a sim level of either. Fact, when you really examine the physics from a real car perspective it falls way short as well.

It’s not so much as the physics of Forza games are better, they are just different. Given that, they are all just arcade game physics.

But the physics of any of these games are the least of the problems. I can’t say any real changes are needed in these areas given the other areas of change discussed within the context of this thread.

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I’m very open to new games, especially, older series that get revivals like TDU. But in this case, we have seen nothing but CGI teasers and trailers for Solar Crown in the three years since it’s been announced. This is usually not a good sign, no matter how far along in production they may or may not be.

If they had presented just 30 seconds of actual game play, I still might be skeptical, but at least, I’d know how to temper my expectations going in. However, we have zero indication how it will play, and we can’t use the WRC games as a barometer because those are a completely different type of racing game than what Solar Crown will be, supposedly?

Still, I’m keeping an open mind with Solar Crown, but I’m not expecting much since there isn’t much to go on, right now. I’m hoping we’ll be pleasantly surprised, but I think almost everybody has some doubts about it given the lack of updates by KT Racing across the board?

I liked the original Crew, but skipped out on TC2 since it went in a totally different and more arcade direction than the first. I hope TCM leans more into the simcade genre, so it feels a lot better to drive and like the cars have semi-realistic physics that require throttle management and other sim-like qualities in order to drive them well like Horizon, does.

It’s interesting discussing the physics of racing games because at the end of the day, it’s still subjective whether or not you enjoy the handling model that’s presented to you.

Sure, certain genres have certain expectations. But even within those, developers can put their own spin on it, and whether or not you enjoy the physics is still down to personal preference.

The current arcade physics for the NFS series are atrocious for precisely the reasons stated… But to a more casual racing game fan, they’re perfectly acceptable. The same can be said of the F1 series by Codemasters. The games have gotten progressively worse since 2020, but they’re aimed at casual, non-racing F1 fans who want the full F1 experience that goes beyond the mediocre driving.

This statement is subjective, but I recently played the Race '07 games again. The physics would be deemed “arcade” by today’s standards because they don’t use as many data points like modern sims do to calculate the physics. But I find the R’07 games drive a lot better than modern day sims, IMO. The cars feel more grounded (grippy) and you have a lot more control compared to modern sims that always equate feeling very loose and floaty to being more “realistic”, for some reason?

I know race cars have far more horse power than production cars, but if cars (in general) handled as badly as some sims like to portray, we’d still be using horse and buggy, or just walking places if that’s how difficult they were to use on a daily basis. Many sims get this aspect wrong and artificially inflate difficulty just to distinguish themselves from their more casual, or arcade counter-parts.

Again, this is my own opinion whereas someone else might completely disagree and feel some sims aren’t “difficult” enough compared to how real world race cars perform. That’s the beauty of having different developers give us different interpretations within certain genres of racing games.

I just think it’s interesting how there seems to be a current debate among racing game fans (across all genres) how the more primitive physics of older titles (supposedly) felt a lot better than modern day games do even if the technology was far more limited. There’s some nostalgia at play, sure, but having played an older title recently, there is also some merit to the argument even if it comes down to personal preference in the end.

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It’s only a failure when looking at it from the perspective of considering these games as actual competition to Forza. They’re not, and never can be for me. So it’s a little frustrating when people are like “hey, you got an issue with Forza Horizon? Then you should play The Crew 2!” No. That’s not a viable alternative. I’m glad others can enjoy those games but I can’t, and I hate that the industry has trended in that direction for open world racers (with the exception of Forza).

The physics of Forza is actually shockingly good and detailed, way more than you’d ever expect from something that should accurately be called simcade. A lot of the physics concessions are programmed in after the fact for the sake of accessibility. Personally, I’d much prefer as real as possible, but I’m also a big believer in making gaming accessible so I’m kind of constantly arguing with myself on the merits of those concessions.

Point is, the Forza engine is a fantastic one to build a sim or simcade racer on, if not the best. It’s just never been pushed to its potential thanks to deliberate concessions, good and bad.

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