feeling on FFB steering wheel

i have been playing forza for queit a long time now, and it is what got me into the whole simulation driving/racing. back on forza 2 i got myself a MS WRW and i had a blast on that for a while till the late stages of forza 3 when i learned about the fanatec wheels with 900 degrees of steering clutch and gear sticks, i was sold. upgraded to the 911 gt2 with clubsport pedals, after playing forza 4 for a while i had a bit of time on my PC with it but still mostly played forza. after my GT2 wheel broke down i decided to upgrade again to the CSR elite, and my goodness is it a beautifil peice of gear. now after spending quite a bit off time away from forza, (been playing the likes of rFactor 1-2, Live For Speed and Assetto Corsa) i went mod hungry on my wheel, adding a quick release(with wiring conections), bigger stronger FFB motors and even an air pump that pumps air directly through the motors to keep them cool.

after jumping back onto forza today one thing became very apparent to me, the amount of input lag from the wheel and lagg on the FFB side aswell. i ran a '08 bmw m3 on the nurburgring with simulation steering and 900 degrees of steering. after trying to turn through a few corners i found it very difficult, the wheel was very soft on the initial turn in and all of a sudden the force feedback would kick in and nearly rip the wheel out of my hands and turn the wheel in the opposite direction and causing me to see saw the wheel as i was fighting the FFB. now maybe this has become more apparent to me now more wheel is much much stronger (i done have this problem on the PC game btw incase you were thinking its just the wheel) the FFB signal is far to lagged to give good feedback. after driving for about an hour i was getting used to turning on forza again (aswell as adjusting the tuning on the wheel to get a bit better feel at turn in) but one thing still stood out to me, it was very very hard to find the grip limit. when the wheel lightens up a touch when cornering (which represents maximum turning grip) by the time i get that signal its already too late and ive started understeering. trying to find the limit of grip is made very difficult by this delay from the FFB aswelll as the input lag, its almost a guessing game of how fast can i cornet without understeer,and how sharp can i turn before i get oversteer. but once i got used to it a bit again the physics behind forza 4 are very impressive for the most part, i just wish i could drive them more directly to get a better feel for whats happening

has anyone found any little tricks or tips to help minimize the lag? any little thing that could help i think could make a difference

Tough one to answer since you’ve heavily modded the wheel. Perhaps the new motors are not in sync with the feedback from the game. Have you tried different FFB settings, both in game and on the wheel itself? Or maybe run a different amount of steering angle just to see what happens. I personally have never understood the fascination with 900 degrees of steering. Are you racing a school bus? No car I know of has that much steering.

most production cars have 900 degrees of steering or more…(race cars use less but because of the inacurate amount of steering lock on the race cars(there is too much in forza) in FM4 it feels better too use 900 anyway) there is a delay because of the wireless conection, not because of the motors or FFB setting, i was hoping maybe someone had found some tricks to help minimize it.

There is no delayed input or FFB on my Elite, nor was there any with either of my GT2s, the Turbo S or MSWRW.

The only issue I can think of that might be affecting the feel is the low central spring weight present on some firmware versions, so try upping the ‘Spr’ value on the wheel itself.

i used the center sping to get a better feel at turn in but the centre spring is just masking the delay, its still very difficult to push the car on the limit when you cant get clear read on where the limit actually is. with all the wheels i used previously i cound notice it (slightly), but i never realised how bad it was until i came back from the pc sims, and llike i said its more pronounced that the wheel is much stronger

As far back as I can remember, I’ve never before heard a complaint regarding latency with a FFB wheel and Forza. I can easily feel the limits, with the FFB and steering always being immediate and direct, I certainly don’t notice any indication that the spring rate is masking lag. The wheels feel virtually the same whether wired or wireless, on PC, PS3 or 360, I certainly wouldn’t and couldn’t play Forza with the lag that you are experiencing.

I hope you find the root cause, as noticeable wireless latency between the wheel and console isn’t a normal issue at all.

after playing around for a while yesterday on all the forza games from forza 2- forza horizon i cant say the same. all the games have a huge lack of feel around the centre (literally there is nothing, you can get the car to slightly oversteer and the wheel will give you absolutly nothing) and have very poor FFB comunication (wheather it is actually ylag aor not) self aligning torque steer is nearly non existent in alot of cases and the wheel in general give very useless feedback in some casse, especially on simulation steering when recovering from slight oversteer the whole feeling is just completely retarded to put it lightly. i have never ever had the feeling of any wheel on any forza being direct and imediate, its always felt sloppy and un-intuative (if thats even a word)

i respectfully disagree, i have complained about latency issues for a long time on forza but never took it to any forums before. i never had a problem when using the wheel on PC or PS3 using the usb, i only have this problem on forza (its the only driving game i have so i cant test it on others). i guess it is the downside of console (xbox) but the lag is there maybe you just dont notice it, or maybe your just really used to it, alot of people dont even notice small amounts of lag so it all depends on on each persons perception. who knows maybe its just some stange issue i have somehow

I have to agree with Sav. I’ve used the MSWRW and currently have a GT2 wheel and have never noticed any latency in the FFB.

I race online, 3 or 4 nights per week, using simulation steering on an Elite and have no complaints whatsoever. There are usually quite a few other guys also using wheels on sim steering and they are not having issues either.

Perhaps you could post your wheel’s onboard, as well as in game, settings and we can see if there’s anything that might be causing the problems.

Forza 3 and 4 don’t have perfect FFB (it is somewhat weak) but I’ve never had problems with the feel or control, to say it’s ‘retarded’ is totally wide of the mark in my experience.

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i dont have time to tonight but ill do some recordings tommorow. im not saying that its undrivable, i can still drive a car reasonably quick and slide it around but the whole experience especially when trying to drive on the limit feels very nervous hard to predict, its far more difficult that i think it should be, to me the physics are very comparable to the likes of assetto corsa but the feedback from the wheel makes things very awkward. anyway ill post a clip up sometime tommorw

heres the clip: Forza 4 driving/drifting - YouTube i start talking after a few laps.

after ive been playing forza a bit more ive learned how to drive it again, but there are still odd feelings in the FFB, now im unsure if its because of lag or just poor FFB on forzas part.

I can send you some early firmware versions for the Elite if you wish to try them, they had different default spring rate algorithms and had a stronger feeling around the centre point.

Just out of curiosity, what are your FFB settings? I think the general consensus is to set it at 100% in the game settings, then control the amount you want using the settings on the wheel.

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It’s actually the other way round, always use the in game slider for FFB strength as the wheel effectively clips the feedback if turned down.

As always, you are correct Sav!! Been so long since we had one of these discussions I had forgotten. When I looked at my own settings, that is how I had it set up.

Actually it was found recently by a member on gtplanet that in newer firmware they fixed that issue at some point.

As for using older FW, I don’t think it will help, I can adjust the spr to get a better feel but that force is completely artificial and doesn’t react to the car. It’s like a soft spot that’s been implemented into the FFB but at the centre point the wheel will only respond to very high end of FFB signal. I presume they made this soft zone to eliminate oscillation in the FFB but it kills a lot if feel for driving the car

100 in game and 100 on the wheel