Its killing the game and making it way too arcade/easy…
I understand that it happens in real life but in Circuit racing ?
In free play / drift / drag all options should be open …but once u choose circuit they should be unavailable …
Yes it makes the Leaderboards look pretty with all the different cars …but really its just engine Leaderboards with different shells…
Surely if you just sorted the Pi system properly in the first place cars would be equally as competetive anyway…
And it takes away the competetivness of the lobbies aswell, because of the huge differences in Bhp and handling ,which also causes crashes because of the different driving style required…
All in all ending up as ghost lobbies or people leaving cus theyve had enough…close clean racing requires equally matched cars…
Theres a place n time for building these cars , but circuit racing should not be one of them…Rules n Regulations?
I would think it is safe to assume that many tuners, racers and Forza enthusiasts, overall, beg to differ. Your post, to me, reads like you’ve been beaten one too many times and are looking for something to blame that on. I don’t think engine or drivetrain swaps make the game feel like an arcade racer at all. Many of these permitted modification are completely feasible and not out of the ordinary. What confuses me most is that you want to place some sort of restriction on them when “u choose circuit” … whatever that is supposed to mean.
Furthermore, cars aren’t made equally. Your statement that “if [Turn 10] just sorted the PI system properly in the first place, cars would be equally as competitive anyway” is about as far off as can be. In addition, the driver behind the wheel is what makes use of the performance of the vehicle - you aren’t being beaten by cars with a skewed PI. You are being beaten by a driver who, at the time, is better than you.
I don’t know. Your post seems to allude to a proposal to take away options from a game that is in a period of rebuilding itself from the ground up. I don’t expect you’ll have much of a following on this and, even for the future of Forza, your reasoning is a bit ludicrous. “Rules n Regulations”? Sounds to me like you are just looking to cater the game around your driving style.
Lol obviousley never looked at the Lbs then…and im looking for abit of realism… u know real world racing not some jumped up arcade racer…n yes cars arent made equally but equally u cant then go n add a rally engine to make it competetive… Circuit racing has rules n regulations u cant just change the engine or tyres etc to suit you , are u crazy…n the fact u think im strugglin with the game and want to change the game because its too hard couldnot be further from the truth…the fact is its too easy and unrealistic and i think u will find that 90% of the community would agree n are in need of a challenge… and a bit of realism…
Hahahahaha! Wow, you have no clue who is actually fast in this game do you. Simmo is consistently at the top of the leaderboards and is not likely being beaten by very many unless he isnt trying or completely runs an uncompetitive car.
What he is saying is if the PI calculation worked correctly all cars built to the top of their class should be able to compete with eachother. Due to the dominence of the rally engine and the 5.7 v8, if you choose not to run one of those motors in whatever car you are running there is no chance your car is going to compete.
I do feel as though forza to an extent has alligned the drivetrain swaps much better, now its almost better not to do a drivetrain swap, but the engines are out of line.
Any car with the 1.6 in the lower classes up to A will beat anything without it!
While I agree with most of what Shadow Edge stated, there is one thing I disagree with:
It is true that cars aren’t made equally, and the stock PI reflects that. However, I am constantly frustrated that after investing thousands of CR into upgrading a car to optimize it for a class and is utterly uncompetitive. I use a different car with similar stats (power, weight, tires, powertrain configuration, weight distribution) and it is clearly superior. I don’t think that is right at all. “PI” is short for “Performance Index” so logically two cars with the same PI should be turning very similar lap times. Granted, there will still be differences such as a power build that is mostly acceleration vs. a grip build that is focused on handling, but once cars have been upgraded, there theoretically shouldn’t be such a glaring gap in performance. I’m just stating that this is just my opinion here, and not just because I have a few favorite cars that are unfairly noncompetitive after upgrading.
Do you even race in this game? What are the odds any one would yank a 427 out of a Stingray for ls1? Same with the Cuda and most of the cars in question. With seemingly every car needing to be swapped to compete, we don’t really experience the actual car itself. How the manufacturers sign off on this amazes me. While it has kinda balanced the playing field, not everything can be engine swapped and set loose on a track. That is unrealistic as it gets. The cost to engineer some of these frankencars would be so expensive no one would do it.
BTW, Shadow he’s ran three classes and this is how this horrible driver stands.
HEF, drivetrain isn’t in this game. In FM4 it was really bad with RWD swaps and in FM3 it was the worst thing on any of the games.
To clarify: I never said he was slow. Being at the top of the leader boards is one thing. Winning races against others and their vehicles is another.
But, sure … go ahead and hound me on how quick the original poster is in Rivals; though I’m not sure those credentials validate his argument against engine and drive train swaps in circuit racing.
So, can we debate the actual topic rather than ride the original poster’s coattails?
Re read your first post. You state several times that Simmo is being beaten regularly by better players, and he wants to make the game easier for him. Your statements are baseless, looking at your stats you would be beaten around the track by myself running my wheelchair. I can’t for the life of me figure out what sequence of synapses don’t fire right in the brains of some of the most vociferous members of this forum. The engine swap issue in this game is no different when it comes to on track performance than the drive train swaps of the last two Forza titles. It does take away from the enjoyment of the actual racing on this game for a great deal of players.
I agree with Simmo - especially the rally engine. As soon as everyone figured how to shift with it, boom… B class was destroyed, and A to an extent too. Fair enough the rally engine should be made available, everyone wanted more swaps and options, but the PI system doesn’t account for it properly. I guess when Forza simulates the car to work out the PI it bases the calculations on peak RPM shifting, rather than optimal shifting. There are quite a few inconsistencies like that, I have seen a race gearbox drop a PI by 10 points over a stock transmission - how is that right?
+1
Since the beginning of time, there have been only two ways to have truly matched performance:
-
Everybody runs the exact same spec’d car
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Players put in the time and effort to build various cars to matched performance levels, regardless of the resulting PI difference
This does, by the way, reflect real-world racing situations. A somewhat interesting article (depending on how much you’re into these things) about the Logistical issues Krohn Racing had to deal with to get ready for Le Mans, including “the transformation of the Ferrari F458 from IMSA specs to the 2014 Le Mans GTE-Am aerodynamics package and Le Mans race engine installation.”
There are organized groups doing just that with Forza — but clearly, jumping into a Hopper is NOT where you’ll see that type of dedication and interest in the game.
As far as the Class-based Leadboards goes, well… it’s interesting that the OP mentions the swaps “… making it way too arcade/easy.” The LBs are, in my view, pretty much the MOST arcade-like activities in the game!
Endless laps in a perfect car, with never-changing track and lighting conditions… Rewind as much as you want… Use whatever view you want (3rd-person view???)… Chase a ghost car!!!
So — all of those arcade aspects are just fine and dandy, but engine / drivetrain swaps make it too arcadey???
- Don Ente
Don, you took a legitimate complaint about the game and the engine swaps and took it completely out of context to make a statement about leaderboards. His basis for the whole post is in his second sentence was with “circuit racing” but then that would take away from you trying to discredit his statement.
If people bothered to build cars or tune them that actually argued with the those complaining then maybe they would know that you throw a 1.6 liter rally motor in a everything and shift it halfway to the redline and you can’t catch it with anything else in the game. That is leaderboard or race lobby, in fact it’s probably easier to get closer to one on a leaderboard than it is a lobby because they accelerate way faster than anything else.
Shadow Edge, do you even play Forza or do you just sit on the forum and argue with everyone all day. I say this because Simmo is stupid fast and would beat the snot out of myself and almost everyone else. It is also not feasable and is completely out of ordinary. You can put an LS1 Chevrolet motor in almost every car in the game except…DLC Chevy muscle cars. The dominant cars on the board have a 1.6L rally spec’d Ford Ecoboost. You put it in everything possible. That nice Skyline R34, R33, the Subaru WRX, 22B, Mitsubishi Evo 8, Evo 6, an X-Bow, Toyota Trueno, Lancia 037, and many others. I’d say not being able to put a 5.7L Chevy motor into a '66 Nova while being able to put one in an S15 is pretty out of the ordinary. I’d also say that finding and putting a WRC rally engine from a Fiesta into everything in the game and torching upgraded Lamborghini’s and Ferrari’s on a road course is far fetched. Especially when you’re shifting it dead in the middle of the power band.
agree with simmo.
i love more the spec races and spec challenges. more fun and more close racing. 
Lol simmo is a beast. What he can do in FWD is impressive. I seriously doubt a guy with #1 lap times is struggling.
Anyways, while I agree that V8 or 1.6l swapping is annoying in order to make cars competitive it isn’t as bad as the dreaded fm3 awd swapping. I can live with it though since I don’t play multiplayer as much as I did in previous forzas but admittedly it does take away from the uniqueness of cars which I don’t like.
Although I don’t agree with drivetrain swaps being a problem the engine swaps are a big problem. That’s why I just do league racing with spec’d cars.
I had that many top 10 times once …
course it was a day after the green disc had arrived and only 9 others had driven them.
keep pushing!
and the shadow edge you are annoying congrats for your activity in the forums but on forza 5 you aren’t active so please inform yourself next time before you think emw simmo is a newb…
peace
If you think there is a difference in LB’s and winning a race you need some more educating on the subject. If Simmo was to run a stream of himself, even hotlapping, you would see that he and 99.9% of other hot lappers run the same laps over and over again. He would be so far ahead of everyone after one lap he would essentially be hot lapping anyhow. Someone capable of what he is capable of have such good car control it doesn’t matter what they are in.
Zermatt is a hot lapper, goes to VM and destroys everyone there in races. You can go all the way back to the IFCA where the fast people always win. TPR b0x is a hot lapper, hardly ever races and he goes to TORA and VM and beats everyone there and that includes guys like Takumi and whomever else you want to throw in there. Fast is fast, learn a little about what you say before you say it. Your argument is 100% pointless because you are 100% wrong. It moves straight to racing. Go get someone to not motor swap a car and race someone of equal speed in the car that is. 100 times out of 100 the race will be won by the better car. In fact, go race him yourself!
I can’t believe you are even arguing this…well I can because all you do on the forums is argue.