Take a B class cortina and don’t put the 1.6l motor in it and it is 6 seconds slower a lap on road america full… take that same car and get the horsepower to match that of the 1.6l and your b class cortina is now well into the A class but still slower than the 1.6l B class version.
There have always been overpowered something in every game and there always will be. Us gamers are always looking for the edge in every game and when we find one we exploit it. If there was a way to dumb down these motors I would not be opposed to that but as of now I am content.
I agree with most of what Simmo said. But I take advantage of the car differences to manufacture close racing, sometimes with friends in private races and sometimes in public lobbies. In private races we get the quickest driver in the slowest car etc
In public if in a slow lobby the slow cars come out. Spec races are close if skills are well matched too. In fm5 that is not always the case.
Well that went well…lol…
I was just tryin to say the engine swaps are a bit over hyped and it slightly takes away from the realism and close racing aspect due to the huge differences in performance…
For myself that likes cars and motorsport i like to drive different cars for the fact they are different , i dont want a shell with the same engine as every other …just to keep up…
A fiesta should be a fiesta /fwd /stock engine etc…A Cortina a cortina…A mustang etc etc…its just gettin a little bit silly…
Im not saying take them all away…use them in other aspects of the game …but circuit racing im not sure its for the best…oh well back to tuning on the Ring …what a great job T10 did on that beast…
I always build cars with the original motor and another with the swap. I prefer driving the original motor. Maybe they could do custom public lobbies with one of the optional settings being no engine swaps.
This is how I like to do it. Also have an epic time trying to beat the rally engine cars using the original engine . . . and failing most of the time . . .
Wow. I didn’t think it would be remotely possible for there to be so much support for a posting that suggests taking out or putting in restrictions on engine and drivetrain swaps; but, boy was I wrong when the Simmo train came rolling into the station. It is absolutely laughable as to how many of you are ready to jump on and take a ride merely because of the original poster’s leaderboard status and attack my stance because it doesn’t agree with the said “celebrity” figure. So … without further ado, I recant my original response so that I may nod in agreement and so that this thread may be filled only with the disillusioned approval of coattail riders. Eh … not so much.
I’m going to take a little trip with this one. Many of you are probably going to lose focus and fall back into line, as you were. That’s okay. For those that give the time and consideration, your patience is greatly appreciated.
Back when the original Forza Motorsport debuted in 2005, it was widely celebrated for its innovative features, such as: livery design, damage simulation, racing action, driving physics and, you guessed it, vehicle customization. Since then, Forza Motorsport has prided itself on a reputation that it provides the opportunity for its gamers to be creative and adventurous to the tune of their tuning desires. With that has come an expansive lineup of engine and drivetrain alterations, allowing users to take one car and make an infinite amount of fine adjustments to fit their digital driving demands.
Subsequently, over the course of nine years, numerous requests for additional engine and drivetrain options have risen and died within these very forums from members genuinely asking for more flexibility and customization within the game. Now, as I sit here, I see a thread that questions the nature of these modifications with a proposal to put a restriction on them or, presumably with the “its killing the game and making it way too arcade/easy”, getting rid of them altogether. With that, I raise questions as to why the game should be watered down any more than it already is and, to my surprise, how does a figment of the community respond? Not with any sort of constructive response that justifies what has been proposed; but, instead, an all out attack on someone who sees no value in restricting a feature seven months into the game’s life … much less a feature that has been a mainstay of the series.
So, instead of this thread becoming a debatable topic, it has turned into a bromance fest where the letters that compile one’s Gamertag automatically receive approval, regardless of what is said. Like sheep off a bridge, the responding consensus is simply and childishly: “Nah, man. Our boy Simmo, you see, is atop the leaderboards and anything he says goes. What do you know? Do you even race? Do you even do anything but post arguments?”. To that I ask: are you so simpleminded as to think that this proposal the great Simmo has devised has everything to do with leaderboards, racing, and being competitive and nothing to do with a feature that sets Forza Motorsport apart from other driving games?
Fans of the Gran Turismo franchise (and some of them may very well be Forza fans, too), would be shaking their heads at such an idea. To see it coming from the community - they might very well die of cardiopulmonary arrest. But, no, let’s go ahead a play out the scenario that engine and drivetrain modifications are restricted or eliminated because the kings of the leaderboards say it shall be so.
Far more than the amount of people who have littered this thread with their narrow-minded mentality and faction-based retorts, a great deal more would absolutely flood this entire forum with disgust and admonishment toward Turn 10 should such an action take place. The amount of disdain and anger would overwhelm each and every one of your trivial complaints about how engine and drivetrain swaps make Forza feel “arcadey”.
This leads me to my main point. Forza Motorsport isn’t strictly for the tuners, the designers, the Forzatographers, the hot lappers, the career completionists, the “hardcore”, the “casual”, or the automotive gurus. It is a game for all of those, inclusively. Instead, what I see as I look at these posted replies is a group of tuners and hot lappers thinking that these aspects of the game revolve around them - forgetting that there is an entire population of consumers who play the game for what it provides and not what leaderboard junkies decide is best. These blatantly aggressive posts that, because I am not a member of the leaderboard elite or some kind of popular tuner, makes me less affected by the proposed change and a lower class citizen to the videogame prowess of Simmo are disgustingly barbaric.
So, go ahead and make your quips and post your misaimed low bows; but, I guarantee you that for every person you scare off from voicing their opinion against this idea, there is an equal amount who realize that this “community” is not a place for pitting words against Forza’s proclaimed heroes and is, ultimately, not the place for them to enjoy their hobby with others, at which point you can all log-in each and every day to give kudos to each other.
To return to my original response that sparked so much hatred, I never stated that Simmo was slow as some of you would just love to believe. I did, however, state that he might have been beaten by others one too many times in cars that he, obviously, feels are unbalanced within the PI structure. Similarly, I stated that Simmo isn’t simply being beaten by cars with a skewed PI, but by a driver who, at the time, was better than he. Even the most professional of racers should be willing to admit when they have lost. Of course, I don’t hold any videogamer to those standards; but, I sure as hell will call a spade a spade when it is one. If you are bested by someone in a race, that someone was better than you at that particular time. Maybe not in a sportsmanlike fashion, but in terms of how we humans calculate race results, the one before the other takes the carrot.
Now, if we want to go ahead and suggest that Turn 10 reevaluate how engine and drivetrain swaps are valued, we could actually have this discussion with very little argument. But, many of you appear to have already made your decisions by clearly overlooking that omission from the original post by Simmo. That or you just skipped down the first objector for your all out assault. And no, the snarky “if you just sorted the Pi system properly in the first place cars would be equally as competetive anyway” remark doesn’t count. We all know the “equally competitive” touch is but a dream that resides only in the perfect world of automobiles.
I am sorry, but no barrage of words from you aggressive bunch will keep me from disagreeing with this solution and that is the keystone of my argument. If you disagree with me - great. Tell me where I am wrong … don’t start building a pedestal for your gods. If I am somewhat on point, let me know and we can talk it out. After all, that is what these forums are for - discussion and debate, not a turf war or popularity contests.
To those who criticize my posting techniques. It is unfortunate to learn that the “block” feature has gone remiss. Nay, it’s still there waiting for you to click on it. I promise, it won’t hurt my feelings one iota. I speak my mind. I don’t speak for yours. So long as I am within the bounds of the terms of use and tact doesn’t become a membership requirement, my willingness to question threads like these will continue.
Toot, toot! Good for you.
It’s nice to see a moderator with the fortitude to go against the grain.
Did he though? If it were anybody other than Simmo in the byline, I’m guessing you would be a bit more apprehensive to their suggestion to throw restrictions into the game like it was nothing. But, seeing the veiled relationship here, I’m guessing that, too, would take away from your arguments.
As a moderator, I would think that you (of all posters) would have a better grasp of the fouls associated with misquoting.
To the left, to the left. All the ‘block’ features are in a link to the left.
There is a great deal of difference between hot lapping and racing. If you don’t believe me, I invite the actual racecar drivers to chime in at this point. I have no doubt that Simmo can get walked over by someone who merely sits within the leaderboard’s 10% … its just a matter of the moment and who can come away with the win. Forgetting that not everyone plays Forza for Rivals recognition would be a dire mistake for anybody thinking their leaderboard status automatically translates into actual racing success.
As for my arguing, we both know you didn’t get over 7,000 posts in four years time by acting like an angel. Additionally, you may find it interesting to know that many of my contributions have been in the form of helpful troubleshooting and otherwise. Certainly, as a moderator, if my postings have been a bit too abrasive, the private message function can be useful in “knocking me down a peg” or censoring my commentary.
All I am trying to get at here, folks, is that we shouldn’t take people’s words at face value, no matter where they are positioned in the grand scheme of videogame glory. Forza is played by millions of people; millions who have no part in these forums whatsoever, and it is not a prerequisite to do so. To rashly decide - with some sort of tagalong authority in tow - that the game should be changed to this effect, is inconsiderate to others. To no surprise, it would be expected that these complaints are repeated over and over again; but, in terms of the bigger picture, people enjoy the engine and drivetrain swaps for the amount of free reign it gives them to enjoy a videogame.
Again, could the PI system be better sorted out? Probably. But, if the community’s solution, in turn, is to start putting restrictions into the game, at what point do we become hypocrites when Turn 10 does the same? The playing field has been set and we all have an equal opportunity to gain the advantage, as Don Ente so wisely points out. If, instead, one’s solution to cater the game to their driving style is to limit the accessibility of certain features to everyone, then it would seem this game’s community has gotten to a sad, sad state of mind.
The PI is broken, fact.
The cars are unbalanced due to the 1.6 and 5.7, fact.
The Cycled production hoppers existed to fill this particular request.
FM2 was balanced cause we, the players enforced HP restrictions in the lobbies.
The problem is we have hoppers, and not lobbies hosted by players setup the way they want to play, instead we have a 1 size fits all solution that doesnt work, fact.
As for Don’s post, he points out leaderboards are arcadey. So Don, WTH is a time attack considered cause unless Im mistaken, its a bunch of hotlapping to put times on a leaderboard.
We didn’t post because of Simmo or that he is good, he’s actually new here as well and most good players don’t come here because of people like you. No one is celebrating him because he is fast, in fact that was not brought up until you made your ignorant post about him getting beat and everyone called you on it. You created this, not the coumunity, not any one group. Again, this is YOU creating the problem then pitching a long winded hissy fit in return.
Again, you brought up that he was getting beat. Everyone replied to you! LOL
Who brought up getting beat first?
Did you completely miss my post about hot lappers beating racers? It doesn’t matter, no actual driver is going to come so don’t hold your breath. I think I would be well versed on the subject since I run in racing leagues against people who never hot lap. The guys in CQR, the guys like Nonni, and many more don’t hot lap. Simmo would compete with every single one of them because they have an equal skill set. Some guy in the top 10% does not, you do realize that times in a race post to the LB right? Again with an example for you. Zermatt has #1’s everywhere and hot laps like crazy. He goes to VM and races where there is qualifying and sets his hot lap time. After that the race starts and guess what happens, he beats his hot lap time consistently in a race, we all do. We run laps in the race within a couple of tenths of our best when hot lapping the car pre-race over and over and over. The race actually runs at hot lap speed, guess what happens to someone not up to pace? They get killed and pulled away from lap after lap. No one in the top whatever is catching someone with #1’s, sorry it isn’t happening.
Have you ever raced someone really fast before? I’ve ran top 10’s in races while actually racing and Simmo is faster than I am. I’ve ran with Chemical and Picasso and seen two top 5’s ran in a lobby in this game while we were racing. I’ve raced with the TPR guys before and ran in the top 20 while they took 1,2,4 in FM4. These guys are hot lappers and if you are running top 5’s over and over no one is catching you.
I also advise you to check your PM’s before replying on this forum.
Shadow do engine swaps have a place in the game? Absolutely.
Is PI broken in relation to engine swaps and other things? Absolutely.
Are there people happy to use the engine swaps? Absolutely.
Are there people who want a better balanced game? Absolutely.
If the PI system can’t or won’t be fixed then let people set up races with their own restrictions. It does not force driver x to use those restrictions. Driver x can run in a rally engine lobby if they so choose.
Have I jumped on the simmo wagon? No. I have always had issues with an unbalanced PI system and sent a detailed feedback email on this very topic a month or so ago.
Again. You all have missed the point. I can agree there is work to be done to PI and, likely, there always will be. The problem is, the original poster, regardless of who he is, has suggesting restricting engine and dtivetrain swaps for circuit racing altogether.
Am I the only one who actually read his post or all of you purposefully choosing to ignore it?
Fair enough. His reaction to the underlying problem which is a PI system that drastically under rates the rally engine is to ban that engine from circuit racing.
If the game had either better rated that engine or had CPLs he would not have to make that suggestion.
Shadow what would you suggest to address the underlying issue?
Im sorry but you’re doing a great job at picking and pulling quotes out of context in order to support your misguided assumption as to what Simmo was saying. If you read his whole post it is fairly obvious he is proposing a change to fix a broken PI system. It appears you got caught up with his first statement and couldn’t be bothered to comprehend what he is referring to or that you possibly have no idea on how beneficial these parts are since you’re too slow to keep up. Yes that jab was made to sound childish. Admittedly Simmo probably didn’t word his comment the best, but his point is pretty easy to understand and literally everybody else who knows the in and outs on exploiting the PI seemed to comprehend what was really being said.
Oh and there isn’t much difference if any with hotlappers and racers. I’ve literally raced against hundreds of the fastest guys on the leaderboards and they all can race cleanly at a high level. If you’re getting torched then yea it is easy to assume the hotlapper is just well hotlapping in the lobbies, but when you’re actually able to keep up you’ll find by in large the race craft is fantastic and is the prime example of what Forza MOTORSPORT is and should be.
