Digital Foundry disassembled FM 2023

Forza Motorsport Forza Motorsport (2023) Discussion
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103

I was trolling the guy who called me a troll. My original comment was how lopsided the comparison was, gt7 isnt the end all be all graphically, but what they have presented is of better quality i believe. Its also a cross gen game that has 120hz support as well as vr. Its a versatile platform which the same cant be said about forza.

I dont think the things they have worked on in this new title have worked out well. Even in forzavista things are all noisy and shimmering. Trying to get ray tracing working has ruined the game, its not even a good implementation of it. The game is not finished, theres no polish in anything theyve made.

Theres also the fact that the comparison didnt mention all the graphical bugs like tracks and cars interiors disappearing. I feel as though John couldve been harder on forza but carefully chose his words as well as what was shown to not ruin their chance at getting preferential access to microsoft titles in the future.

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104

Define “we”.

105

We the players need T10 and PD to push each other to make better quality games. Well hopefully next time .

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106

You don’t speak for all players, or even most of them.

107

I actually find the road like mirror interesting because I actually get mirror like roads here in my country when it rains specially on black roads sometimes I can’t even see where I’m going .

108

Where exactly is this sign?

I wanna see if in the next update they fix it or not.

Will be very telling to what sort of feedback they actually act on.

109

They wont. It will be there forever

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110

I know people worked hard? on this game, but T10 should be embarrassed at the state of this game.
Massive downgrade in graphics, menu’s worse then any other Forza, Still the same bad/inconsistent AI,boring /short events, car progression.

Also love that high resolution texture pack that doesn’t do anything

Oh, and why do you still see through your car to the other side of the track through your side mirrors still?

Been like that since forever. GT7 doesn’t do it. Because they have proper reflections.

Man I hate crapping on this game. But it looked so good when we first saw it, and we got this.

111

This is the most important aspect for me… I don’t care about graphics, the graphics is ok… on Series X and with a good SmarTV the game shines… The car physics is great and much better than GT7 (I played this game since day one on my PS5)… I’m a designer and love to creat race liveries… this is my MAJOR complain about this game…
I can’t import my decals from FH5 to FM, this is a real shame. Hours and hours spending in making good racing decals and you need to make all over again. Too old for this (LOL).
The penalty need really really really be improved in this game too. I’m playing private races in every weekend, with gamers that really want to race, and it’s a blast!!
Please fix the Painter System, make sure that creators of FH5 can import your decals collection to FM, and improve the penalty system and we have a winner.

112

If anyone for whatever reason has no time to watch the whole thing. I recommend you skip to the user experience and wrap up/conclusion part of the video. It just hits right in the feelings. Especailly when you think about the entire franchise, not just motorsport.

Screw the bugs and glitches and the performance issues… These could be fixed, but the heart of the game… Its just so passionless compared to gt7.

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113

Honestly, when I first bought GT7 on day one, I wasn’t even impressed with the graphics it presented. Then you compare it to what T10 gave us with FM8. GT7 isn’t so bad after all.

But what makes me keep going back to GT7 is the PSVR2 support. The experience in VR compared to a flat screen is wildly different and much more immersed in VR. I might have a little over 100 hours on FM8, but I have five or six times more in GT7 because of VR.

If T10 add VR support for the PC version of the game I might revisit it again, but as of right now, I have no reason to play FM8. (thank goodness it was part of game pass ultimate).

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114

Turn 10 still needs to listen. And let’s be blunt. They aren’t listening. Which is why the game is now 576th place on XBox’s Top Paid Games list. So much for that Game Awards bump.

By comparison, guess where Gran Turismo 7 ranks on Playstation’s equivalent list? 25th.

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115

They put the game on sale through Steam to try and boost holiday sales. I can’t recall any Forza title going on sale within 6 months of launch, especially one that hasn’t even received its first major DLC. (Do tracks that we’ve had count as DLC? Probably not. I’m thinking game modes, new permanent career options, etc.)

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116

It’s not just Steam - they’ve slashed the prices across the board by at least 15-20 dollars.

It’s the same thing Dodge did with the last generation Viper after the SRT brand name project fell through one year in. Turn 10 is desperately trying to move product.

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117

I best try and get use to GT7 again as this could be the last Motorsport. Horizon will continue. I’ve had some good racing on FH5. In single players races I’ve found the AI much better than in Motorsport.
Even though the silence with T10 is deafening you can bet behind close doors there will be some panic going on. and MS must be unhappy

118

So essentially we paid more to beta test and now that the game is in a slightly better state those of whom decided to wait get a reduced price and didnt have to put up with a significant amount of the problems we have had over the past few months…

This is ridiculous. I dont think its unreasonable for us to ask to be refunded the difference between our price at time of purchase and the discounted price now. Thoughts?

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119

I’ve been preaching that gospel for years…

Common industry practices have repeatedly shown that pre-ordering or buying immediately upon retail launch is paying for the worst version of a game at its highest price.

Games are always better after inevitable post-launch patches/updates, and there are always discounts later.

Being an early adopter often comes with lots of problems & frustrations, which completely kills the recreational vibe that I seek from gaming.

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120

I would agree, although there is an obvious and clear argument to be made in favor of caveat emptor. That said, I feel that even bringing that concept up serves as little more than a deflection to the more salient issues surrounding Forza Motorsport 2023.

As of today (12/18/2023), it’s been more than two months since this game was released to the general public. Much has been written and recorded about Motorsport 2023’s many instabilities and lack of content, from customers like you and I, to YouTubers of varying degrees of respect, to even digital publications like Digital Foundry. Across all measurable metrics, the game is in a state of free-fall; when I checked the Microsoft Store not even a week ago, it was at 536th place on the charts - so in the space of three or four days, it fell 40 spots. The entire situation like something that should be addressed posthaste, no? But aside from a couple of vague statements that can be attributed to no one but Turn 10 at large and some fleeting appearances by previously-unseen staff members who are not only just as vague but also obviously uncomfortable with the idea of being the game’s public face, there really has not been a real acknowledgement of the game’s issues and of the game’s current state, particularly from the two people who made themselves Forza Motorsport 2023’s public face prior to release, Chris Esaki and Dan Greenawalt. Those two have been able to give an interview with BBC’s Top Gear magazine, though, and in the case of Esaki, show up for The Game Awards.

Enough, quite frankly, is enough.

I don’t care what effect it’ll have on the game’s development. I don’t care what I may or may not know about game development. But there needs to be an explanation or explanations given. There needs to be an accounting. There needs to be committments made, and a solid plan to move forward, and updates on that plan at a frequency faster than a monthly basis. And really, all of this needs to come from Chris Esaki and Dan Greenawalt. Live, unscripted, no PR people to coach them on how to handle it, no one they can throw between themselves and the storm that they have to face. This needed to happen the first week. It needs to happen the first working day of the New Year.

As things stand now, I don’t see how this game makes it to Spring 2024 and the Nordschleife update. It is falling far too fast, and what efforts are being put into pulling out of the dive are decidedly mixed, both in reception and performance. Motorsport 2023 is quickly reaching a point - and arguably has already crossed that line - where it needs to not be considered as a game as we would traditionally consider other games or even earlier entries, but as a disposable product meant to fund other endeavors…or worse, as Call of Duty: Modern Warfare III and The Day Before have both demonstrated.

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121

We all agreed to the boiler plate ToS (Terms of Service) when we bought and fired FM up for the first time. All corporations have these legal disclaimers to protect themselves from frivolous litigation… That while not frivolous in this case, would be viewed as such. That’s just how it is. There’s nothing we can do about it. Steam won’t entertain this, and the MS store definitely won’t. Eat the cost and move on.

Besides, the “sale” is literally 14 dollars off. Could they spare it? :roll_eyes:

When it hits $19.99, I’ll consider it a real sale since this is what this game is currently worth, IMHO.

RE: Accountability…

Just like trying to recoup losses… It’s not going to happen.

It should happen, and would go along way to help restore what little trust and actual community is left after this atrocious launch, but it’s probably not going to happen because of what has been discussed before about MS appearing weak as far as product offerings, and how that effects their valuation on the stock market.

Even on a micro level, do you think T10 and Xbox want to publicly admit they’ve lost the simcade war to their direct competitor, GT7?

GT7 is in much better shape as far as functionality and content offerings. It may not be your (persons in general) game of choice, but objectively, it’s a better product that is continuing to grow. FM is a just a dead stone, sinking into the murky abyss in a sea of games.

As far as continued support, they legally have to fulfill the Car Pass since that’s pre-paid DLC.

If they don’t, they’ll be in breach of contract (buyer/seller), and that can lead to real world consequences in countries that have pro-consumer laws that are enforced.

Remember, MS has come under fire in the past for things like trying to monopolize web browser choice outside of NA, and had to adjust accordingly to continue doing business in the EU, and other territories. The Activision Blizzard deal was heavily scrutinized by consumer agencies outside NA, too, before approval.

Beyond the Car Pass, however, it’s a crap shoot.

The CP is the only guaranteed part of this product that must be delivered, but everything else is up to T10’s discretion, right or wrong. I just hope they realize they may have to scrap their original plans and release massive content dumps to get players back… Along with removing, or revamping the Car XP system… Before it’s too late.

Also, since it’s the Holidays, I wouldn’t expect anything until after the first of the new year. So, we have another delay on top of whatever they may have in mind since the release fell so close to various Winter holidays that will further delay additional patches and content drops.

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122

I duno - a bunch of people will fall for the high reviews and buy this game for family over christmas.

It will take those players a couple of months to get onto the forums and start complaining - T10 can drag out this silence nonsense a few more months and still keep sales trickling in.

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