I am posting thing immediately after noticing this. I know that the AI is given a boost for difficulty reasons,
But the fact that I am in a stock 2015 Corvette with the only mods being a race camshaft and race wheels and I am getting absolutely DUSTED by the SAME CAR. My PI rating is a perfect 900, so the fact that they can suddenly double their acceleration on straights and then finish with a 5 second gap between them and me is ridiculous. It actually infuriates me when I get to 2nd at the beginning from 12th and see that they are already ahead with a huge lead. Difficulty is on pro btw.
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As you’re explaining it, this is a known issue. If you are racing a circuit race, try to increase the laps (double them). The AI tends to normalize in the extended laps and gives you a chance to catch up.
Drivertar cheating is an odd one. Nowin multiplayer, their rubberbanding is what I definitely consider a cheating.
Performance though… Well, that one is wierd. The performance isnt as much cheaty as incorrect. It may look like a vette, but it has different gearing etc for a better tune in that race, so in many ways, not a vette but just a vette skin, at least is how it seems to me. God accel cars like you mention tend to not have the top speed or speed in corners. They also perfect throttle control, so they dont spin tires which is also huge.
It is annoying at times indeed, especially when a vehicle is performing beyond what is possible if you were in same vehicle. Very noticable in a street scene.
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What track is it, and how is the race set up, i.e. is it one of the standard blueprints, or your own in which case what are the options?
I recognized that it is possible to get a better result or that you are more competetive against ai when u drive with manual shifting and shift when the limiter hits. Its just a little help, but maybe worth to try it.
If you want to see cheating drivatars do the goliath or any large race in an x-class car and despite the fact the AI are in s2 class hatch backs they are able to easily compete. I have seen them suddenly speed up and for no apparent reason slow right down or even just drive off the track. I think its due to the way they are programmed. If your in 1st place the 2nd place Drivatar gets a huge grip and speed boost to keep you ‘on your toes’ so to speak. Also if you are driving very well the car in front will slow down so to give you a chance as to catch up. I do think they should make them feel more natural. Seeing cars dart around like a rocket propelled mosquito that can become psychopathic at higher levels ie they try and push you off the track isn’t at all fun.
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Actually if you make anything goes blueprint around goliath you can be mutch faster than AI drivers, it seems even those focus and tt’s have limit how fast they can go, i have drive goliath by using S2 class car and won 2 hour race by 9 second when AI use focus etc but when use mosler or 720s PO etc best those AI drivers can lap is abaout 8,10-8,15 but yeah it’s still way too fast lap by using PI917 focus.
Try taking off those camshafts and spreading those engine mods around, and decreasing your weight. Camshafts reduce torque, and torque can be good for acceleration.
What are your gameplay settings? With all assists off, manual clutch (you can keep rewind on, and collision off), and learning how to take a faster line, with a perfectly tuned car, you can beat unbeatable driveatars, even when they cheat hardcore. I agree they do cheat, but on some tracks unbeatable can be very beatable, and pro too!
Here are some suggestions to try (I play unbeatable and beat the AI almost every time (every time if i pick my best cars, had good practice on the track) ):
The general rule of thumb is it’s about the fastest possible corner exit. straight line speed is important sure but if the car can’t turn much, you can’t expect to exit corners very quickly, leaving you further and further behind after each turn.
Tuning order of importance (just a guide line, try and experiment):
- All handling items (race brakes, suspension, roll bars, weight red, roll cage optional, helps mostly for rally stability, or high speed)
1.5) Gearing (traction control off, use telementry to find out where in the RPM has the most power, for this example lets use max power 500hp is at 7,000 RPM, redline is 7500, rememeber every car is different! Tune your first gear so it sits at around 7000 while your wheels are spinning as long as possible without being too much on the “speed” side where your car cant get up to revs, and not too much on “acceleration” side where your first gear bounces off the redline (both awd and rwd). Once you find that perfect balance, tune your last gear to about where your car just hits it’s top speed, refer to the top speed calculation in the gear tuning menu left-side. (your setting may be the end of the graph, or just before it a little on some cars like in the S2 class, most cars top out around 435km/h except mosler and a few others). Then tune the rest of your gears, keeping in mind where your most power is (7000 rpm in this case), you want your gears to start just before 7000 rpm so you always roll over your max power, and go slightly past the redline (manual or manual clutch only). Dont worry too much about what forza calculates your 0-60 0-100 times if it worsens them, I get almost to the front immediately when the race starts in almost every car i tune gears this way (you start in last place on unbeatable).
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Tires / Aero.
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THEN power upgrades, whatever PI room you have. the weight saving power parts go last, exhaust second last, and cams very last. centrifugal superchargers have most bang for buck, I also find cars with a lower redline handle easier.
- Check out the ForzaTune app (im not affiliated, but it’ll help you get started with tuning your own cars decently worth the $3 on play store. or find some free tuning calculators online, just for a starting point at least. read some guides on how to diagnose tuning problems like understeer/oversteer)
Once you have a properly tuned car, then learn about racing in real life, such as the importance of hitting the Late Apex (results in fastest corner exit speed, usually) you should be a lot faster in any racing games.
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watch other great drivers on YouTube, like Don Joewon Song. Look at his late apex corners, they carry the most speed.
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Rivals is the best way to learn the fastest “lines” around a given track, set your rival to someone much faster than your best time, and try and follow their line, until you get the idea of the concept.
It’ll take some practice and work, but with enough persistence, you will beat those dirty, cheating, hilariously broken driveatars on Unbeatable difficulty (S2 Audi TTS and Ford Focuss with no aero passing you while you’re going 435km/h and going around a hard corner without them braking???). Online cough i mean bumper cars cough is another story, I’m afraid I can’t help there.
Have fun, enjoy. It will be worth the reward. Good luck!
While i agree many points you write there is few that i dont agree. First you dont need set all assists off to be able to beat unbeatable AI, as long as braking is not set “assisted” you can beat AI on any difficulty and dont need even perfectly tuned car to do so even unbeatable is totally beatable even with totally stock car. But i agree that pretty mutch every assists make you tiny bit slower (it depend a car how mutch assists affects in lap times, some cars are mutch slower even if only assist is automatic gearbox)
Tuning order also depend what purpose you build the car and also what races you are planing to use that car, extreme example lotus elise 111s in A800 if build that like you write you end up really high handling car with low top speed that would be awesome car tracks like festival circuit but in faster tracks is way too slow. So that car is overall build is better without weight reduction and tires section only make tires wider.
“most cars top out around 435km/h except mosler and a few others.” Do we talk in the same game because most of my cars dont get 435km/h top speed, actually my x-class race setup mosler get 433km/h.
Rivals is best way to learn fastest possible line but that is not allways best line to use in races unless you are super good driver, in rivals you can take faster and more risky line than racing (espcialy in online) because if you mess up worst thing is that you need to restart in online taking that faster and more risky line may end up costing you way more than taking that corner with good line and more safer.
There really isn’t much you can do about it because that’s the way it is designed. Either turn down the difficulty to ensure victory, or improve your driving, or use rewind to correct any mistake. Also you just have to accept the fact that AI isn’t consistent across all circuits and tracks. I can easily beat unbeatable AI most of the time but in one particular race I struggle to get 1st place (usually have to try several times) and that is the Titan, the final cross country race.
According to my observation there are two types of AI cheating in this game. First one is the good old-fashioned rubberbanding we all are so familiar with, in which AI gain acceleration and top speed and maybe cornering speed as well but I’m not sure, when they are far behind you. The other type is when they are ahead of you and there’s a considerable distance between you and them they no longer collide with walls, small tress, fences and other breakable objects, they simply become “ghosts” and drive right through them, so their speed isn’t reduced, making it harder for you to catch them because you’re always lose speed when you collide with breakable objects. This is especially easy to spot in the Titan.
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I absolutely adore when I’m doing seasonal stuff and I just happen to check the drivatar in either 2nd or the two next to last places and they’ve driven lap times that would be in the top 50-100 rival times in the world with cars that are bottom 98% quality. Totally nothing wrong here at all… Apparently nothing that will ever change either as this has been an issue since day 1 of drivatars. I’ll never forget when I raced a Buggatti on Forza 6 and it lapped 1.7 seconds faster than the world record lap on that track… wonderful.
The common theory, which makes programing sense, is that the A.I. is not using the car you see, it is not using any particular car at all - it is using (well that would be the idea) an approximation of what the class/type matched with what the player is using, and scaled for difficulty car, this means it can and will achieve things the car you are seeing it use, can not do.
That been said there is certainly flaws in the system (if this is what is been done or not), where the A.I seems to glitch and ignore difficulty/matching the player, runs counter to the class ie class can not do that no matter car choice (and so achieving things like what you mention, unreasonable times), runs counter to type ie this type can not manage that regardless of car/tune, and all this on top of things that appear “as designed” or “built in” - ignore weather, ignore surface, ignore objects that would cause slow down, ignore water slow down, ignore airborne slow down, ignore gradients.
Yes I consider these ‘cheating’ simple by “if a player did it…” rules. Other peoples views vary.
I wish the time will come the gaming itself will get more attention than the graphics but, for now, focus is on having 120 FPS on 60Hz TVs …
Regarding current situation, I think they did the most with calculation resources for a game required to run smoothly on a Xbox 1S.
I remember the time I started playing FH and was considering the drivatars ahead in solo as better cars I should use to improve my score … lol … like many things in FH, offline racing does not resist a close eye. Sadly I don’t think it will improve as fixing those kind of things does not bring any additional players …