Our goal is to bridge the gap as much as possible.
They said three years ago. 
Was it that bad in PCARS2? I had no clue.
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Yes haha. Project Cars 2. I have never been so scared in a racing game. It was like being on a rocket powered toboggan and wearing oven gloves with only orrs to steer.
That’s bad. I actually really liked it.
I wish RWD cars would be like that in Horizon. Heads would explode! 
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Yes. It is an amazing game, I just couldn’t get on with a pad.
Bedlam uses a wheel and he’s extremely fast. Generally the top wheel users do very similar times to the top pad/keyboard users. They seem to have done a much better job at balancing than they did in fh4 (where I understand wheel users were significantly disadvantaged on dirt/Offroad).
I could wright much about this topic but I think it’s better to stay quiet to keep the “forums peace”. 
Wheel users are still disadvantaged because anytime you get airborne (kinda like in real life) you have a tendency to land sideways. A brief one second snap of a 1" thumbstick easily corrects this in FH5 but with a wheel, you’re having to use the FFB to tell you where the wheels are, when they will bite (to prevent snap oversteer) and so forth…it just takes that extra second or three to get your car settled and accelerating again…you lose time/position.
Its fun, don’t get me wrong, but it’s more work…
I’m a good driver. I’m usually placing top 500 in leaderboards in games like Dirt Rally 2.0 or WRC Generations, even though I’m mostly playing career modes with hardcore damage and as full of a sim experience as possible (with the exception of playing on controller without clutch). Back when I did the daily/weekly/monthly leaderboards in Dirt Rally 2.0, I regularly entered the top 100 and rarely got into the top 20.
I much prefer Horizon Tour over open (at least Tour has restrictions), and I am not at all insulted by your comment. It’s pretty accurate. Heck you could extend that comment to Forza Horizon in general. The average Forza Horizon player is really bad, which is ok, I don’t have an issue with that. What I do have an issue with is the fact that this game doesn’t teach/encourage people to drive well, it teaches them to drive dirty, so that’s the path to improvement a lot of people take.
I could go on at length about why this is and how to improve it, but that’s drifting a bit off topic. All I really wanted to say is I didn’t find your comment offensive, even if you had removed your further explanation.
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Most games don’t teach a player to drive well, and the games that do are “boring” to the casual. AC, iRacing, PC2 and the like all promote proper driving skills. GT tries to do this to an extent (penalties and such, but that’s it’s own can of worms). The biggest problem is that more casual games like FH5 screw up any semblance of a penalty system. Short races, no qualifying, and a shoddy penalty system make for problems.
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While the skill level of most people in FH5 is not very high, in Horizon Open you will find competition for sure. There are people who can run insane times online and winning against them is far from easy even with small car advantage.
Horizon Tour is nice as an idea, but it should be reworked imo. Drivatars are useless so they should either be removed or make them be able to be more competitive.
People who are not good at driving do not improve because they can get everything in the game without have to be good or try. Even the trial that was somewhat more challenging got nerfed in a ridiculous level. A more difficult pr stunt in the playlist and there are several complaints…
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Also no damage system worth mentioning and walls everywhere that catch people who should be going on wild wilderness adventures. I’d be a lot happier if the walls were removed from the game. Maybe then people would learn to drive as opposed to ride.
Saddest part is, they instead built an entire expansion for those people who ride instead of drive.
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Oh yeah, there may not be a ranked system, but there still is some light matchmaking at work in open. I just don’t find it appealing for the same reason I never really persued ranked in 4. Without restrictions, it just becomes a meta chase.
Tour has so much potential if they only put a little effort into it, and I’m capable of creating plenty of challenge for myself if I were able to create custom championships and run them with my club, but I’ve been barking up those trees for years and gotten nothing for it.
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I think the online skill level in FH5 is a bit higher than FH4. In FH4, there were a lot of slow people and dirty drivers. The “run everyone into trees/walls” type. In FH5, there’s some decent competitive drivers, and I’ve had some awesome battles with them.
There are quite a lot arcade game try teach player drive well. Some of them are 10~20years old
In Need for speed shift there are extra objective like perfect 12 corners or do clean overtake. The same system in Project cars 3.
Or maybe you earn point by drive well/drifting then you lost point/point reset if you crash.
Some game even give you message when you crash. Like npc in radio say things when you crash. (In new nfs the police comment your driving)
In Forza horizon 5 you can still see people wallriding in tour
Divebomb NPC in the single player.
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I totally get your point, but instead of nerfing builds or limiting their effect, i’d vote for having an extra mode for stock cars, stock drivetrain and the like. For example, as a keyboard player, I can’t drive stock cars at all, simply because i can’t send half inputs for braking like a controller or wheel can [it also means I have from 10 to 20 pi less to play with for fully upgrading brakes]. Through testing, I got good results between -50% -60% brake pressure and balance. And that’s one of all the things you could benefit through tuning- make a car fit to your driving style
A tip for throttle and brake control on a digital input.
The input doesn’t go straight to 100%. It rapidly ramps up, and ramps down when you let go. This means you can actually manage your throttle by rapidly tapping the input. It takes some practice but it is possible. Once you get used to it you’ll notice you can control the throttle by the speed you tap at.
You can do the same for brakes, but that’s a lot more difficult. Considering the difficulty to performance gained, I’d recommend sticking with ABS.
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I’m not a keyboard player, mainly wheel, but I read awhile ago that a very infamous Keyboard player mentioned that he had set up a series of programmed keys that had different brake pressure and balance, and used the preferred key or keys based upon the specific type race.
This was discussed a bit in this forum, but I have noticed a new breed of -Intelligent Speed Hacker.
When they first came on the scene, it was so blatantly obvious to everyone one what was happening.
But I haven’t witnessed that type of display in a long time.
What I do observe now is a car that has no reputation really, with a pretty low prestige player that is winning by a slight gap pretty much every race.
I’m not trying trying to be prideful here, but I’m not that bad of a racer. Not top tier by any means, but I can hold my own pretty well in most races.
With that being said, I have a somewhat hard time understanding why I lose some of these races, that in all honesty, I should be winning.
That player using an apex line that has no chance of working, but it does and defies the law of physics. The player slamming a wall, and I look behind me and they are right there on my rear bumper?
That little extra burst of speed that car has no business having.
Slowly pulling away in the straights.
All those little things adding up to - something here just isn’t right.
This by no means happens in every race . . but every once in awhile, when my thought is - how did I lose all those races?- that is when I question the other players integrity.
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Thank you for advice, yeah for throttle that’s what I’ve been doing, but for brakes it’s different because even a slight tap would lock up the wheels and lose traction, which results in missing corner entry.
Have been considering to enable ABS again for a while, but tbh I like the challenge that comes with adapting to these things
