A tedious, unsocial multiplayer and PGG couldn’t care less

Forza Horizon Forza Horizon 5 FH5 Discussion
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It’s not rewarding and fun. It’s tedious and repetitive, with no worthwhile reward.

Elim, Open (racing/drifting), Rivals (broken) … It doesn’t matter.

I’m not someone who just logs on for braindead AI seasonals or pointless Horizon arcades. I go online to have good close races in a mature social space and to want to feel a sense of accomplishment in “winning”.

There should be a desire for me to want to win a race. Not here.

Even for the newer crowd, at least give them a reason to be online other than for cosmetic clothing or horn approval from other players.

Clubs still don’t work.
Public multiplayer lobbies are just voids with no microphones (why can’t I hear anyone…)?
There is no real reward for coming first.
There is no real reward for winning in a lesser powerful build.

This is without even addressing the prolonged failure of the PI system and how power is “LITERALLY” the only real way to achieve the best race times minus 3 or 4 tracks in the game. (cathedral, bola etc.)

The experience is just BAD. Add on a janky physics braking system and you just have hell every time your online even if the lobby is balanced and forgiving because players still don’t brake properly.

There is no reward for building a somewhat fast unorthodox car, because guess what…that 1600hp Supra, Dodge Dart or NSX-R GT will just destroy you and the guy winning in said car will be given 100% props for doing so.

On the flip side let’s try run some B class and try to bring builds to a state of equilibrium, guess what same story, just not as severe.

I usually run B class with semi competent cars. Sure I can get some great races while the experience lasts, but there is no point in “trying to win” anyway because there is no “end goal” to amassing race wins.

No-one cares if you’ve spent 1000 hours in first place or achieved 10,000 race wins.

I don’t need more credits
I don’t need 60 points from another championship win so I can flex my ego on people in the lobby.
I don’t need more cars.
I don’t need more wheelspins from levelling up.

Where is the fulfilment going to come from?

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It’s my understanding that PGG removed the Ranked system based on complaints and frustrations with how the system had been implemented. In my opinion, the pendulum has swung to the extreme in the opposite direction.

I’ve never understood the pitch that Ranked was removed to open the game up for more players. The game is currently full of ranked comparisons and in every metric there are legitimate concerns and frustrations with unrealistic scores resulting from glitches, exploits, modification and/or cheating. At best, PGG has overlooked this reality. At worst, they risk suggesting that Online Multiplayer is the only ranking system players care (or should care) about.

In my opinion, PGG should really acknowledge the frustrations expressed by the community.
Or, they should go the full hog and completely remove ranked competition from every aspect of the game.

Cherry-picking certain aspects however and leaving others (which are clearly flawed and leading to frustration) whilst telling us that such decisions were made to help pacify the community does come across as a kick in the teeth.

As a suggestion… why not introduce a new game mode which satisfies the need for balanced, competitive gameplay? What about a season-long championship in a variety of stock vehicles. Players could then race to win points and unlock additional tiers of reward.

Take away the scope for exploitation, give people some meaningful structure and reward and let the community thrive and enjoy what is fundamentally a great game. :+1:

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THAT!! Aka cheating, thereby destroying the integrity of what, for most, should be (as you stated) meaningful gameplay. If they reacted the same way to these issues as they do for other “minor” issues in which they come down hard on players, that would be a good start IMO.

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What they really need to do is get off this “always online” mentality and get back to stuff that can truly help build in game communities.

A car meet and custom championships would go a long way to boosting the multiplayer experience.

Instead of always being matched with randoms, a car meet mode would allow like-minded individuals to form convoys (the first step in forming communities), and custom championships would expand the appeal of convoys immensely.

Going into open as a convoy means that it’s going to be a no restriction meta fest unless you somehow miraculously get a 12 stack, individual exhibition races are far too much prep time for either the time or the variety of your racing to ever be a viable way to play, and tour is extremely limiting in terms of scope and choice, disempowering the player and especially the convoy.

Custom championships are essential to convoy activity. Heck they’re essential to the single player experience as well, but that’s not what we’re talking about right now.

This game, as it’s set up now, discourages grouping up. There is practically nothing for a convoy to sink their teeth into.

Edit: it’s ironic that in this era where forming an online community has never been easier (thanks to discord), that games are trending in a direction that discourage the formation of communities.

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Nicely said, unfortunately none of this matters. The next title is going to sell even more than FH5, so dont expect anyone in the dev team to even care lmao. So, unless people is actually willing to do something about all this , and that would be to AVOID buying any product from these guys, this is never going to change, so why bother to even post, again something like this? lol. For me, this franchisse is a pure joke. My main concern besides all the gameplay mechanics that are designed by monkeys and broken, are how stupidly easy are cars to get. Ridiculous. The game reached a point where nothing matters for anything anymore. 90% of your cars are going to sit in your garage and you are never going to use them, ever. We dont have a favourite system in place, where we can use shorcuts to our fav cars, or shorcuts in the main gameplay screen to QUICKLY change from one car or another, we cant even use DESCRIPTIONS for our fav cars… i mean, come on lol.

This game as this now is a pure joke, but again, it doesnt matter, and people doesnt care at all, so posts like these should be avoided, for real.

And now, waiting for the ban again because of course, all this i said is not allowed in a forum since it is negative feedback. God forbids to speak one paragraph of truth without being warned or banned lol. Hilarious.

For me the last straw was the hot wheels dlc. I hate hotwheels and now i literaly paid for an expansion I HATE and im not going to play. Thanks. The whole expansion is hilarius, ridiculous, we dont even need to tune our cars anymore, or to actually enjoy driving (because its not about driving anymore). But sure, i bet all the kids out there will love the hotwheels expansion. I wonder what are they doing playing this game instead NFS or any of those hotwheels cheap games out there.

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I always found it ironic that a game series that sacrificed its single player campaign in favor of being more online-oriented has a terrible multiplayer compared to games that came out almost twenty years ago.

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ywah ppl are not as social (as nice) in games anymore… but even the simulators have isues with the basic public lobbies… its hard to find clean racing until you move up some online rank or levels in other games…
i cant see it working in this unless a new ‘clean racers’ lobby or ‘tour’ is available with a different collision system…
there is a collision system here but it doesnt seem to work all the time, especially in tight corners where things are inevitable… only at faster speeds it seems… idk…
it needs changing or adapting in some way, or a new race with new rules added…

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I agree OP. Everything ultimately comes down to minimal effort and maximum return. But as I now say, it is what it is.

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The author and everyone who has replied are spot on, perfect examples of how since FH4 this this game continues to spiral out of control. Wished they would turn the servers back on for everyone playing FH2.

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Also remember PGG are here to make money. I bet they have already sold the next motorsport title to all competitive Horizon players simply due to the lack of competive gameplay here.

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a matchmaking that prioritizes a simple collision counter over the last 10 races (whether online or offline)
clean racers will have less collisions and those others maybe like it as it is…
Its a simple system easy to code and would be a big step forward
and if the game would reward those with less collisions in some way… yayaya that yellow clean driver shirt…
anyway, just a thought

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That pendulum has most definitely swung to the extreme.

A progressive league mode or tier system for balanced play would most certainly aid that fulfilment factor and make gameplay mean something. The ranked removal pitch was clearly a “fit everyone in one basket” manoeuvre and goes in accordance with what nearly every game is attempting to pull off.

Bring in the new casual, insult the long term player.

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Very true. Just as previous games allowed you to be online or offline, but in a natural sense without peer pressure to be online 100% of the time.

Here the attempt is to mould the player more and more towards their vision of a racing game and guess what some don’t fit said mould.

When you cater to everyone, you lose players by default.

Additionally, great point in prior meets before going online, another effect of widespread catering is that communities reduce by default.

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There is the All Time rankings for Open, which goes along with the ranking levels for Open competition.

As for the build issues. A vehicle OP in one race will not be the same in another. It’s all in the tunes. Heck, you can two identical cars, with vastly different results, simply based on how they are tuned and the drivers understand of how that particular car operates.

This is why I caution about just downloading another players tunes, without examining the details and test driving.

Example… one of the common errors guys make is just downloading the highest top speed. Which is, generally, drag tires, no camber wheels, higher front than back, crappy suspension and all upgrades to just speed.

They can’t corner, crappy acceleration and even worst turn-in/turn-out speed. The cars also tend to unsettle too easy, which cost grip, speed and reaction time.

Those types of tunes, also, tend to have just the final gear tuned, which kills the 0-100 time.

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Simply and irrevocably based on how long you play the game

Not race wins
Not clean racing
Not your tuning capabilities
Not your ability to win in a lesser build
Not your ability to avoid collisions with other players.

Yes because some cars have been implemented with such stock stats and PI placement with such upgrades that they destroy everything else, not just because of the tune.

The Torana is strong because of the power to weight ratio and the manageable mechanical grip, not because of the tune. So why would I choose other options if that is going to make my experience more stressful?

The open event lengths are 3 tracks per championship. Most of the time it offers either 2 sprints and 1 circuit or 2 circuits and 1 sprint, meaning I have an advantage on the latter if I choose grip.

But objectively, why am I racing if the goal is not to win and just to cruise in my 300hp none swapped S15?

I run online regularly in default engine builds for immersion and the only underlying factor to a win is my experience with driving. My skill will only go so far until a stronger build decides to show up meaning my skill level is no longer the differentiating factor.

The vehicles that are OP work on a high power to weight ratio with the best available grip.

There’s no medium in build philosophy, meaning for small tracks it’s only full grip cars that work and for sprints and street only high power, Forza aero that works.

That’s why wide body kits, huge power and insane rear tyre width is the only optimal build if the car has it.

Besides Cathedral Circuit or Bola or Chihuahua or maybe Jardines circuit it’s power and Forza aero, end of story.

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Online rankings take consistent performance. The Online XP is based on finish result AND banked skill points.

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As for car builds, sorry, based on your reply, you have a lacking understanding of cause and effect, in regards to tuning. Like wider tires give you improved top speed and improved handling to the drive tires, but decreases the launch (acceleration from dead stop) and your overall acceleration.

I strongly suggest doing random builds and running rival races with telemetry on and recording. So you can review what is really happening. Such as wide tires get less positive results from Camber.

Also, AWD are far superior if small tight tracks, as you can rarely obtain top end. Vehicles with front or All Wheel drive pull through corners.

In Dirt, AWD is king, providing you have proper suspension, Differential and Sway control…

In Off Road, AWD with weight ratio and tire width on drive AND steer tires rule, since you also have to deal with one wheel off the ground, which in standard cars would cause slippage.

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Raaz is correct.
Car building & tuning is no magic in this game.
Once the standard formulas are found (which tire choices for which power/weight ratios/performance classes, which engines, when Forza aero/when non, general suspension, tire pressure and diff settings) it’s all about PI-efficiency and squeezing as much power as possible while maintaining manageable grip/traction. In the end it’s mostly experience.

Raaz & I are doing this for years and we have the racing experience to judge different builds. Once you get the hang of it it’s more following a pattern than actually car building/tuning. The tough part is the time needed to learn the do’s and don’t’s and get an eye for where you can take a car (which class, tarmac or Dirt/CC).

For example there is no place for a balanced RWD tarmac build in this game. Either powerbuild or ultra grip. If you are going for a balanced build it’ll be mediocre.

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Exactly, but players cling to the notion that through tuning you can somehow effectively turn a balanced car into a monster for leaderboards.

No, it doesn’t exist.

Doesn’t matter if I soften my front sway bars by 10% or have a slightly more locked diff, it’s not going to create 3 extra seconds of time for a leaderboard on any track, unless your a god that never makes mistakes.

They just don’t understand the foundation that the engine sits on.

As you said, you can apply the same principles to most builds that the tuning is just to get more turn in, or reduce corner exit wheelspin. It’s not used to make a car OP, the car itself is already OP with it’s broken placement and reachable stats for a given class.

I use weaker cars mainly to try to get more enjoyment out of a race win, and let’s be honest if I have to go to them lengths in the first place, there is something wrong.

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Nvm