At this point Playground, just flipping tell us we're never getting a modern urban environment

[Incog_Bus]

Agreed on most fronts.

I enjoyed the urban racing in FH3 more than FH4/FH5. The roads feel more spacious in Surfer’s Paradise, & it’s burbs, compared to Edinburgh & Guanajuato. The roads themselves not so much but the tree lawns, sidewalks, etc just give more space.

I have some great times on the Cathedral Circuit but I hate that track in online lobbies. It’s all about strategic braking, downshifting & throttle control as most of the Guanajuato tracks are. A LOT of drivers have issues combining these 3 skills in a multiplayer setting.

It’s difficult to understand why some would be so adamant about wanting more of that. I’m really looking forward to the Rally Expansion.

[SweedishThunder]

Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t automatically think “modern urban setting” in a game that takes place in Mexico.
A Baja rally expansion makes absolute sense, however.

[Scubadubba6524]

Yes. Modern urban setting and Mexico isnt something that would stay true to what Mexico is. Sure it would’ve been nicer if we had a reasonably large city but even looking at Guanahuato as a staple of an average mexican city thats what a city looks like and feels like more or less.

In size on the map its looks reasonable but in practise it feels tiny. And thats actually true to many european cities as well. Its not exclusive to Mexico somehow.
Even Edinburgh in horizon 4 was a bit exaggerated. I watched a grand tour special some time ago and the trio had to drive through Edinburgh. Believe me its not all wide open roads. There are lots of tiny ones but they didnt include them because it wouldn’t be as much fun to drive around.

In the case of Guanahuato thats what the city is in real life. Its a highly dense very packed city… I think if the games didnt get delisted after 3 years at least we’d have a chance at going back to Surfers Paradise and not relying on buying some expensive keys on the internet to get a hold of it

But i do think we need in the future a well scaled modern city to return. Keep in mind forza horizon, because its called horizon is meant to be different than a need for speed game open world.

[PassionWagon69]

I don’t think a city would be executed well. If they do a good rally DLC then for me it’s a good DLC. Many people who actually go rallying were desperate for more routes.

In a city you need good collision physics with solid objects, interesting buildings you can enter and interact with. So far they can’t even synchronise traffic lights.

[PassionWagon69]

Yeah, I prefer to call it “Cathedral City Circuit”.

[KnightOfRen8514]

Honestly, either would have been fine with me. What matters is whether or not the expansion is well executed.

[TheWarmWind76]

@Novaly6933

With the leaked codename being “Project Nightlife” everything pointed to a night-focused road racing DLC set in tight city streets.

Project Nightlife turned out to be 4 half-feature races (the Midnight Battles). Typical PGG, overselling to the extreme.

@Runoff1999

I personally didn’t want a city expansion, and I am also puzzled as to why it was in such high demand when cities usually suck in racing games without even more forgiving physics than what Horizon already has. I’ve also said it like five times already, and I’ll say it again, but Forza’s physics are terrible when it comes to 90 degree corners. I dread 90 degree corners when they come up in sprints and espeically in street races. Heck, these kinds of corners are why I dread playing on tracks like Silverstone and the Hockheimring in Motorsport.

Personally I like the brutal challenge of sharp edged, snaggy corners and risky passes. I also like it as a backdrop, especially if the design goes more fantasy than reality. Fantasy city all the way for me, with beautiful glass structures, cool underpasses and lush hanging gardens. I know all that stuff exists in real life but it’s nice to feature it without being constrained by real life depictions. But I get why some people find urban driving stifling, especially in a Forza game.

[PJTierney]

@TheWarmWind76

Project Nightlife turned out to be 4 half-feature races (the Midnight Battles). Typical PGG, overselling to the extreme.

Playground didn’t oversell anything.

If fact they didn’t even sell anything, it was a code name for an internal project that got leaked/datamined.

Code names exist so that if something does leak, it’s hard to guess what that thing is.

Forza Horizon 5 (the game as a whole) is “Project Woodstock” apparently, and “Project Sunrise” was apparently Forza Horizon 4.

[TheWarmWind76]

It’s a fair point, but I’d argue that the external culture they have of overselling updates to the game likely stems from an internal culture.

[NukleaBomb]

You are making up insane theories to justify hype that you made up on your own. It is extremely weird.

[PassionWagon69]

Ad-hominem attacks can take the form of overtly attacking somebody, or more subtly casting doubt on their character or personal attributes as a way to discredit their argument.

ANYWAY!

I think people are entitled to feel slighted or delighted. I like rally, but get how little things and no real noise can get peoples hopes up. Rally ain’t for everyone.

[TheWarmWind76]

Sorry, guess I just imagined all of those streams where they ignore all of the fundamental problems and issues the game has in order to vomit excitement over a new pair of socks.

You’re right, the lack of endgame and mountain of bugs did make me mistake something called a project (a term usually reserved for substantial updates) as something of substance. I guess that’s on me for hoping this game will one day live up to it’s potential.

[DgitalHype]

It all comes down to corporate greed. Socks and dirt are cheap. Urban areas are more costly to create.

[FTLFAM]

@PD_Top_Gun

Maybe I’m an odd duck (okay I am), but I genuinely don’t understand why so many people were clamoring for a city environment.

There is a vocal minority who want to turn FH into “Underground 2023” because of their deep, nostalgic love for The Need For Speed Underground games that took place in big urban cities. Some are Midnight Club, fans as well.

I state this not to be antagonistic, but give some insight on why this vocal minority will never be happy with any expansion that doesn’t live up to their projected expectations:

Many want an urban racing game with Horizon’s budget and feel, or more specifically, wanted an urban expansion in FH, so they can relive the fun they had as a young child when NFS Underground 1 & 2, released. Many have stated, it was these games that introduced them to car culture and JDM culture in particular.

They’re wanting to relive that sense of awe and wonder, but no other (big) racing franchises has been able to provide that for them. So, they always hope PGG will “listen to the majority” (that’s a minority) and just make “Forza Horizon: Underground 202X”, so they can relive those childhood memories and get their hit of nostalgic dopamine.

There is nothing wrong with this, but Forza Horizon is meant to be a game that celebrates general car culture from around the world, and it doesn’t focus on one specific type of racing.

Fans can debate whether or not the series is doing this well or not on their own, but the underlying point is Forza Horizon is never going to be the big budget, urban racer a lot of fans are hoping for. This hope stems from childhood nostalgia, and no racing game is ever going to live up to.

Underground, and the Midnight Club series hit at just the right time when the pop-culture zeitgeist couldn’t get enough of automotive culture thanks to “Fast & Furious”. This era also marked the same time many of these vocal fans were very young and experiencing both video games and car culture for the very first time. Hence, they want to relive those more simple and happier times now that they’re adults and get subconsciously upset when no game allows them to do that.

[Novaly6933]

Ironically, Horizon 3’s codename was Opus.

Very fitting because it is pretty much their Magnum Opus and the last genuinely fantastic Horizon game

[Clutch2009]

@FTLFAM

Many want an urban racing game with Horizon’s budget and feel, or more specifically, wanted an urban expansion in FH, so they can relive the fun they had as a young child when NFS Underground 1 & 2, released. Many have stated, it was these games that introduced them to car culture and JDM culture in particular.

[SechsComic73130]

@FTLFAM

@PD_Top_Gun

Maybe I’m an odd duck (okay I am), but I genuinely don’t understand why so many people were clamoring for a city environment.

There is a vocal minority who want to turn FH into “Underground 2023” because of their deep, nostalgic love for The Need For Speed Underground games that took place in big urban cities. Some are Midnight Club, fans as well.

This is every fanbase as well though, the “it’s not Most Wanted '05 crowd, it sucks” or “It’s not Underground 2, it sucks” crowd has only gotten larger over time, becuase people are

A: glorifying Fast & Furious to the moon and back (likely because of JDM)

B: Glorifying Initial D to the moon and back (because JDM)

C: nostalgia (the largest reason)

[Novaly6933]

Plenty of people have made your argument in a vindictive and snarky way. Since you’re actually making this point in a decent way, I’ll give you my perspective on why a city environment would be awesome to see.

First off, I don’t think Forza Horizon should have a heavy focus on an illegal, underground street racing vibe to it. Not entirely, at least. I would like for street racing events and an underground feel to be a part of the game, not it’s whole identity. That’s Need For Speed/Midnight Club’s thing. Horizon has a fantastic opportunity to carve out it’s own original identity. It did it with it’s first title in 2012. In the right hands it can do it again

The thing with Horizon maps is… they really kinda suck. Take a look at all the maps for the games, and just look at all the wasted space. Endless open fields and rocks and dunes. It seems more designed for a military simulation game than anything actually geared towards racing. Mexico is the worst offender, I’d say probably 70% of the map is just empty wilderness and 30% actual interesting driving roads and civilization. Sure, PGG may have worked hard to make everything look visually different but it all drives and plays the exact same. Unrealistically wide roads in the middle of nowhere makes up a comically large amount of the map.

There’s also just the huge level design opportunities for a city location. Parking garages, expressways, back alleys, and footpaths. It’s a pretty common opinion that Forza Horizon’s physics are the best for a arcade racer, and I agree. Imagine being able to experience these enviroments with that handling model. It would be awesome. But nope, rejected PUBG or Arma maps seems to be how they want to design their game map.

In short, I want a much denser map with more to see and experience than just a bland open wilderness. While Forza’s identity shouldn’t be wrapped up in a nightlife, underground, illegal street racer aspect, I do think the game should give the player the opportunity to experience similar vibes in special events, locations, and story beats. Tied only to street racing events, of course.

[shadddow7395]

The best map PGG could create is one which has variety and balance. The Mexico map does have variety but I feel the balance is out of wack because the map is mostly wide open fields or desert which largely look and feel the same.

I also don’t think having distinct biomes is the solution. I would much rather see a bit of everything. A medium sized city or two, multiple forest areas, some crazy off-road ares, etc all blended together with amazing tracks and routes. Again Mexico has this variety but the balance is off.

[TheWarmWind76]

I think we’re coming to an odd head here. I am for an urban expansion, but I’m not against the rally adventure. I was and still am very much against the Hot Wheels expansion, but that’s a whole other can of worms.

As long as the expansion is interesting has replay value, I’m down. I certainly would have preferred a more tarmac focused experience, but that has more to do with the fact that tire balance on dirt is awful, RWD balance on dirt is worse, and the physics favour grip racing, which is just not true to real life on loose surfaces. But I love the idea in isolation of those issues. I mean my second most played racing game is Dirt Rally 2.0. Getting that kind of experience paired with the freedom, genuine downtime spent with the car, and amazing car list of Forza Horizon? Yes please!

I wanted an urban expansion because the city in FH5 was a relatively small part of the map compared to FH4 or 3. I did feel a little robbed, especially with sooooooo much farmland and desert. I get that the deserts need to be big in order to truly communicate the feel of a desert, but the farmland? Even just canabalizing 10% of it for more city would have made a huge difference. An urban expansion would have filled the gap and then some.

Though I’m not going to lie about it, I loved Underground 2. I suspect if I played it today it wouldn’t quite be up to the shine of my memory. I get the feeling that the map would feel microscopic by today’s standards, along with the car list. The progression was quite linear and there was no endgame whatsoever. I also suspect my physics snobbery wouldn’t be able to stand that game anymore. But there were a few good ideas in that game that have yet to be copied and iterated upon. Best one I can think of is having both open world racing and track racing in the same game. That was awesome.

I do not want an exact copy of that game, but I would love for a game to pay homage to it and become a spiritual successor. The Horizon series does seem like the most likely candidate.