Anybody ever build up a car to replicate past cars?

Just an FYI… On the second page of “Tuning for Tracks” thread in Tuner’s Lounge, SynapticLive sent me a link to a calculator should anyone have need of it. Its an Excel spreadsheet. The output of it is pretty detailed, and it’ll getya thinkin about some different aspects you might wanna tune for, as well as givin ya a baseline to start from, once you input your specs.

@GroovierWolf / Avanti 63r1025 How are you guys tuning to 7:1, or 10:1, or whatever to get to the original Trans Am specs? I thought maybe this calc. would help me tune a car to race with you guys sometime.

Just power to weight ratio. Divide the weight by either 7 or 10 and you can’t go above that number with your HP. But Avanti has some specific specs as to what he wants the cars to run at for the “build”. Which is the different components you can add obviously. He sent them to me by PM. I’m assuming if you want to race with them he could send them to you too.

here’s something that my interest the spec series car builder folks:

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/the-mostly-correct-way-to-measure-specific-power-1201800737

seems a pretty (too?) simple little formula that could be used to build a variety of dissimilar car to be pretty equal. can ignore the 2-stroke stuff, but might be interesting to see if you could tease a boost number out of telemetry and use this to make pretty equal turbo and not-turbo cars competitive with one another. not to mention rotaries.

(liters x atmosphere of pressure)/HP@rpm

liters = displacement (obviously), but if it is a 2 stroke or a rotary, you double it.

atmosphere = boost, measured in Bar 1 for N/A engines - is boos reported in the game for turbos? I think it’s in telemetry… peak of 3?

Thanks GW3! I get it now, I was confusing power/weight with compression numbers. I never knew that T/A had a power to weight ratio “spec”…or is that Avanti’s spec? Anyhow, I’ll get a hold of him to get these specs and get up to speed. Cheers!

Leek47, that’s some great information and I appreciate the heads-up. When comparing pressurized engines to naturally aspirated engines, I am more worried about the power everywhere (from idle to redline) especially since we’re taking this in context of 1.6 - 2.0 litre engines. I would allow a turbocharger on a car with substantially less displacement to make up for said lack of displacement, case in point, suppose I were to adopt the Two Five challenge rules in Trans-Am (U2 class evolved to 2.5L max volume), I would allow a turbo on cars less than or equal to 1.2 liters to compete with naturally aspirated 2.5 litre engines.

Count, the ratio is my spec. What I did initially (for both classes) was to build all cars the same and calculated where that placed each of them. I then found a common ground where all the cars could meet and honed the builds to that point.

PS) Turn 10 Studios did include compression ratio in the coding. If only they’d allow us to buy upgraded engine parts (cylinder heads, pistons, connecting rods, etc.) to alter that compression ratio we’d really be cooking with fire [but the game would become more complicated for the layperson].

And then what type of gas you feed it would be another input. LOL.

There is something right about your build specs. I seem to be getting good leaderboard percentages at times. Well, I got like 2 LOL. I did a quick race with a Ferrari 365 GTB with your build specs and I ended up at 9%. But I’m not usually anywhere near that high. That was at the small circuit at Road Atlanta with a 1:17 lap. It doesn’t sound that fast though. I don’t know.

Anyways… will you allow the Ferrari or is that too exotic for T/A? I know they raced together at Sebring and Daytona but I’m not sure if the Ferrari is a different class or not.

Hey, the Lotus Cortina is a left hand drive car??? For some reason I assumed it would be right hand. I gotta get that one, but I need to buy that download I guess.

Trans-Am sticks with the 2+2 (sport coupé) design. The Ferrari 365 GTB seats two (sports car) with a lot of room in back for luggage. You bring up an interesting idea though. I might look into historic sports cars with period correct builds and hosting a multi-class race with sports cars and Trans-Am cars.

Yeeeeeeaaaaaah!! That would be like Daytona and Sebring. And LeMans. Well, a lot of the races were like that, Watkins Glen. Right? What class is that considered? Hmmmm… But the Corvettes C2 and C3. I think I had a list on the first page… Then you got the GT40MK1. I think Ferrari has a prototype that is a DLC car that I think fits that era. Shelby Cobra’s, Cobra Daytona… There’s a bunch. Aston Martin DB4’s… Although that might be getting a bit more vintage. I’d be all over that kind of vintage racing too. The 60 Corvette. That type.

Anyways… I’m probably getting ahead of myself as I would like to start out in the T/A type stuff. Although I just want to race and my favorite kind of cars are the older ones. I don’t mind newer cars, but I like the older ones better.

Avanti, I registered on the website and I didn’t see any schedule for races. When’s your next race and can I join you?

Also, Racerfink, can I join some races with you? And if so, can you give me build specs? Or do I have to buy a car that you offer?

There is a schedule though we’re in season one and it is on break with two races (Sunset & Road Atlanta) remaining.

My subscription to Xbox Live ran out before we could hit those last two events. Now that my Xbox Live subscription is back the guys are racing in other series. The races were on Sunday evenings and I think they’re still free at that time so we should be able to hammer out the last two and then get prepared for a second season.

Just to clarify, you are saying I need to wait until the next season. Correct?

Here are some specs for Pre 66Gt cars running to as near appendix K that I have found on some old documents from a series I tried running if this is of interest to anyone we had about 14 signed up drivers but about 6 drivers on the grid at the most.

Generally the base rules are, No Tire upgrades width or type, Race suspension is allowed on all cars to allow adjust ability. Cars Must run to homologated Gearsets (No 6 Speed Cars) Use Race transmission but adjust to correct gear set, No race diffs, No Anti roll bars, Roll cage must be added, Cars cannot exceed engine Capacity (unless we are back dating IE, 911 2.7 is backdated a 2.0L spec car, in which case do not modify the engine unless stated) and cannot be bellow minimum weights, ground clearance is 100mm. Car can run any body work which has the manufacture logo as the maker, so removing bumpers and adding extra lights. Some rules are hard to check but I put it in Good faith most drivers where here to have fun and drive cars like they where in the good old days!

Classes would be

Non Metal, Alloy GT Cars up to 2000cc: B1
Steel bodied GT cars up to 2000cc: B2
GT Cars up to 4000cc Built before 1962: C1
Gt Cars up to 4000cc Built Before 1966 but after 1962: C2
Gt cars over 4000cc: D

1962 - 1965 Lotus Elans S1 26R Class B1

-use a Elan Sprint For Base

  • 160 Hp Engine
  • 690 Kg
  • 4 Speed Gearbox (Most elan’s used Close Ratio)
  • 1600cc Engine

1962 - 1963 Jaguar E-Type Lightweight Class C2

  • Use E-type S1 as Base
  • 345 Hp Engine
  • 1000Kg
  • 5 Speed Gearbox
  • 3800cc Engine

1961 - 1965 Jaguar E Type FHC Class C1

  • 300Hp Engine
  • 1150Kg
  • 4 Speed Gearbox
  • 3800cc

1965 Mustang GT350 R Class D

  • Use 65 Mustang GT as Base
  • 390 Hp Engine
  • 1180Kg
  • 4 Speed Gearbox
  • 4700cc

1962 - 1965 AC Cobra 289 Class D

-Shelby Cobra 427 as Base Car with Engine Power Reduced in Lobby

  • 390 Hp Engine
  • 1000Kg
  • 4 Speed Gearbox
  • 4700cc

1964 Shelby Daytona Coupe Class D

  • Leave this car completely as it is, only add race suspension and race gearbox with 4 speed.

Ferrari 250 GTO Class C2

  • Leave this car completely as it is, only add race suspension and race gearbox with 4 speed and Roll cage

1960 - 1962 Aston Martin DB4 Gt Zagato Class C1

  • Leave this car completely as it is, only add race suspension and race gearbox with 4 speed and Roll Cage, you may add factory bodywork

1962 - 1965 MG B Class B2

  • MG B GT as base car
  • 160HP Engine
  • 830Kg
  • 4 Speed Gearbox or 4 Speed plus Overdrive*
  • 1840cc

1963 - 1965 Porsche 901/911 2.0L Class B2

-Porsche Carrera RS2.7 as base car use correct 911E bumpers and run in appropriate HP Reduction Class

  • 180Hp Engine
  • 950Kg
  • 4 Speed Gearbox
  • 1998cc (2700cc)

1958 - 1962 Aston Martin DB4GT Class C1

  • Use Aston Martin DB5 as base with appropriate Power reduction
  • 302HP Engine
  • 1200kg
  • 4 Speed Gearbox
  • 3670cc

1958 - 1962 Austin Healey 3000 / 100/6 Mk1 Class C1

  • 250HP
    -100kgs
  • 4 Speed
    -3000cc

1962 - 1965 Austin Healey 3000 MK2 Class C2

  • 300hp Engine
  • 1000Kgs
  • 4 Speed Gearbox or 4 Speed with Overdrive*
  • 3000cc

Overdrive* tune 5th gear to drop engine revs by 500rpm inline with original overdrive units. Am still working out how best to do this.

will try and find more of the cars some are missing stats until I find the correct paper work, other cars are

Corvette C1
Corvette C2,
Ferrari 250 California SWB

I also have some Pree 66 Touring car appendix K builds for

Alfa Romeo GTA
Ford Mustang GT
Lotus Cortina
VW Beetle? (this is so slow it’s not worth racing)

Other possible cars but not included with reasons, plus too many cars would cause a lot of issues

AC Cobra 427 (Not homolagted in time for FIA racing)
Austin Healey Sprite (very slow)
Austin Healey 100s (3000 mk1 less powerful than mk2.)
Aston Martin Dp214 (Using db4 zagato but they don’t look similar enough)
Aston Martin Dp215 (Using db4 zagato but they don’t look similar enough)
Aston Martin Dp216 (Using db4 zagato but they don’t look similar enough)
Aston Martin DB 4 GT Lighweight (cannot find a correct weight for this car and already have 2 variants)
Corvette Grandsport (Never homologated under FIA GT, but was a sport racing car)
Ford Mustang GT350 (Heavier and not as powerful as an R)
Jaguar E-Type semi Lightweight (Is not different enough from other variants.)
MG B GT (not roadtser, roadster has extra hp to bring power to weight the same as a fia roadster, Gt where not used often only in Targa Florio)
MG A (Very Slow)
Triumph TR3 (Very Slow)

I would gladly try rerun a series if there would be people interested and I do have a Performance index handicap system which means that after working out some calculations all cars receive a relevant penalty time after the race bringing the results much closer. In our series the overall winner after 4 races was an MG B.

Oh, no Wolf, if you’d like to race with us in the final two events for season one I welcome another competitor (or three). I’m all for the possibility of shaking up the manufacturers’ points race.

CGC Retro: There are equations you can use to find which ratio would satisfy a certain RPM requirement.

  • RPM = (MPH × Gear Ratio × 336) / Tire Diameter
  • Gear Ratio = (RPM × Tire Diameter) / (MPH × 336)
  • MPH = (RPM × Tire Diameter) / (Gear Ratio × 336)
  • Tire Diameter = (MPH × Gear Ratio × 336) / RPM
    Notes:
  • Keep items grouped in parenthesis, as this is definitely a case to heed the order of operations.
  • 336 is a constant; it’s a conversion factor allowing all other components to interact.
  • Tire Diameter = cross section (315), times the profile in decimal (0.35) [that’s one sidewall height], times two. Now you have the tire’s sidewall height in millimeters (this example is 220.5). Convert these to inches (220.5 / 25.4 ≈ 8.6811) and add in the wheel diameter in inches (17) for a total of 25.6811 inches for this example 315/35-17 tire.
  • If you want to use the metric system, I imagine you’d switch to kilometers per hour for speed and centimeters for tire diameter.
  • In the formula for finding gear ratio, the answer is going to be one number combining the differential and the transmission ratios. For example, a 3.70 differential ratio times a 0.74 transmission ratio = 2.738 and it’s this figure you’ll be given. Take the result and divide by either the transmission or the differential ratio to find the other.
    In your case I would find Gear Ratio at “N” RPM and solve the equation again with Gear Ratio at “N - 500” RPM. Example:
    (6500 × Tire Diameter) / (110 MPH × 336) &
    (6000 × Tire Diameter) / (110 MPH × 336). Keep MPH the same because you want to extract the transmission ratio for the RPM drop.
    Then divide the known final drive ratio and you’ll have two transmission ratios, one will give you the high RPM ratio, the other will give you the 500 RPM lower ratio.

Relevant Duck Duck Go search. This contains more information. Scroll down a little bit because the vexer.com site has a cool visual aide.

Oh good, can you guide me to the schedule, or just give it to me either here or PM’d. However you want. For some reason I couldn’t find it on that other site, but I will try to look again. I would love to race. I might not be very good but I will definitely try not to get in the way too much.

Also I got your friend request on the box. I stumbled upon it somehow. I don’t get how all this stuff works. So I accepted. You might have to explain to me how to actually hook up with your races when you hold them. I don’t see really how to do that in the game. If you would be so kind.

Count and I have been doing some informal racing, so he can teach me, during the day at times. It’s a ton of fun with your builds Avanti. We’re kind of itching to join you!!! Do you have two cars that you are wanting us to use? If I’m reading your post correctly, you want to have a certain amount of replica cars to fill the field. Not sure where you’re at with all that. I’m open to using whatever car you might want to fill and buying it from you. I would LIKE to make a replica myself and show it to you, but my first attempt at buying a pennzoil decal failed. It told me it was locked. So I have no clue how to do it. I guess I need to go into the paint forum and ask more questions. LOL.

But I’ve been practicing with your build specs with a couple of different cars and Count is with me and we’re having a ton of fun. I really really like the U2 cars too. I’m hoping we can run them at some point. Or would you even be open to starting another series with U2 cars on their own? Or do you want to run them together? We just want to race. LOL.

I got your message about the amount of laps. Thank you!

Racerfink, is your club looking for any newcomers for Vintage racing? Just curious.