Anybody ever build up a car to replicate past cars?

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I was born in 72 and I was going on line looking at what cars raced at LeMans that year and some of the other races in Sports Car racing and the game has some of the GT cars from back then. And then of course there were Trans Am racing etc.

But I would imagine if you wanted to replicate a car from that time, you couldn’t just use race tires and such, as tires weren’t nearly as good as they are now. But anyways… I wonder how you would go about doing such a thing. Where do you draw the line on upgrades. Etc etc. And then of course I’ve seen some people had a few cars that really know how to paint their cars well. I have no clue how to do that, but it would be neat to replicate some of the race cars back then in that way too.

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Funny you should post this I’am attempting to do some old Trans am liveries now. I 've done 3 so far but I can only post 1 at the moment I have to upload some pictures of my 68 Jerry Titus Firebird.


Here is a link to the real car I know its a GTV, but I thought the livery would still look good on my GTA

and here is a site for Trans am builds I found and this site for pictures of the liveries.

Here is the 1968 Firebird



Here is a link to the real one.

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Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.

Do you build them like old race cars or do you just build them the way you want that makes it drive good. I’m thinking cars back then didn’t handle as good as they could now. But maybe I’m wrong. I should look at lap times.

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Thanks

Right now I only have a A600 class tune for the Firebird built the way I want. The GTA I have a couple of different class tunes for but none are my tunes. I was going to try and build a couple of them like the build’s on that site, but to busy painting at the moment( dazz’s comp kinda sent me in a direction). I’m going to start a thread in the race livery forum after I get a few more done.

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Looking forward to it.

I like your Cortina also. A 600 Firebird must be built up pretty well.

I gotta check out your links!

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I only did the tune on the Cortina I didn’t do the paint, I’m no where near that good. That livery was done by Damian x666x one of the many talented painters in FIT. (I need redo my signature with that paint someday)

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I pulled up the links you posted and thank you for taking the time to do that!!! I want to take the time to read the article on the Alfa. Very neat place to fine inspiration for a car and that is a sweet car. How come you didn’t do the doors and hood blue like the real car?

I have an Alfa story. I lived in a suburb of Milwaukee growing up and there is a place called Reina Motors that sells Alfas and they had a car very similar to this they raced. I wasn’t close with them at all, but I had been back in their shop for some reason and someone let me look over their GTV. Theirs was red, but I always thought it was a super neat looking car. And of course I’ve seen pics online and such and they just look like it would be a fun car to drive. I like driving mine in the game and have used it a lot. And it just seems like the GTV, the Cortina, and a few other cars that fall into that category are just so right. Although admittedly I’ve never driven one.

I had a 95 Toyota Tercel that I would’ve loved raced. It felt like it handled on rails it was so light. And liked to rev and rev. Very reliable too. I put 80K miles on that car and it was all over the US. The downsides were if it was real windy it was no fun, the wheel base is a little short and made it kind of challenging in the snow. Probably the weight and skinny tires too. And I didn’t have A/C. LOL.

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They are blue for some reason the picture makes them look kinda green.

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Aaaaah. I see.

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At some level occasionally. My problem is, that there isn’t right cars, or right Engineswaps. and in some cases not even a car that would be even close to the actual car.

Most of these cars would end up in E D or C class. Closest I could get was beetle which was replicated from one of my old folk racing cars. (skip to 6 min and captain slow will tell you more about it Mika Hakkinen Teaches Captain Slow to Drive | Top Gear - YouTube ) I did one of my multiple old VW Beetles, painted and and tuned, and it sits in low D class. and is aimed to be driven with 20% grip reduction front and back (lobby options.)



Me and couple other guys had a small series for these once.

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Yea they don’t have all the right cars in the game or right yr. I,'m just about done with the 69 Camaro but I have had to improvise a little because of the vent’s,headlight grilles and vinyl top. I’m just building them all to the top of A class so I’m only replicating the paint, as best as I can anyway.

Those are some nice shots and paints Juggernaut, looks like you guys had a lot of fun. The last picture looks almost real.

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Well, I’m no expert on Trans Am racing and Sports car racing. Especially for that era. But I have spent some time studying books in the past. Mainly thumbing through books at barnes and noble about 15 years ago. And then some googling here and there over the last decade. My last google attempt a couple of days ago showed me a good website.

http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/Le_Mans-1972-06-11.html

It had a similar page for a lot of the racing done in 1972. Sebring, Watkins Glen, a couple of them in Germany. Etc. Etc.

There are a few cars off the top of my head that the game has, that pretty much adhere to those same cars back then:

I think they would be:

GT40MkII (prototype)

69 Camaro (5 liter Trans Am)
68 Ferrari GTB “Daytona” (not sure what class it would’ve been considered but I’m guessing 5 liter. Since it was 4.4.) It raced at many of the races in the US
The Ferrari Dino Also raced in the US and I think at Lemans in GT 2.5 I think
Doesn’t the AMC Javelin AMX qualify? I forget if that engine is correct in the game. I do think the 5 liter deal came towards the end in the real Trans Am series and early on the engines didn’t have that constriction. But I can’t remember if I’m correct about that.
The Alfa GTV
The C2 corvette. I do believe one raced at Lemans with a 7 liter. Albeit it seems the majority of Corvettes in 72 were the newer C3. I’m not sure about 68-71.

I’m not sure where the Shelby Cobra’s enter into the picture. I think both the Daytona and the regular Cobra were raced at some of these races, but I’m not sure…

But then you have a bunch of cars that are close but maybe the wrong sized engine, or some other distinction, Like:

the C3 corvette with the 5.7 (But even with this, at Lemans they weren’t required to race with the 7 liter, it’s just that a lot of them actually did have the 7.
The 69 Nova (There was one at Sebring I think, but I don’t remember what size engine)

Oh crap, I gotta go take the kids to gymnastics… But there are more cars to be listed.

I think the big thing is trying to figure out how to spec them, and what class. Like should race tires be allowed or maybe only “Street tires” Seeins how tires were not as good back then. I tried looking up lap times for these cars the other day but I didn’t get too far with that. But you could compare how fast they really were and then maybe come up with a spec that would be close to not exceed these real life times. I’m thinking.

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There’s the 70 Camaro I know that is a 5.7 liter
The 70 Mustang, that’s a 429 right? 7 liter? Is that 7 liter? I can’t remember if 7 liter is 427 or 454. I think 7 liter is 427 / 429 etc.
What else is there…
I’m not as versed with the imports, but heck you could go back to the c1 Corvette
I think the Datson 510
The 72 skyline
The ford Cortina
Not sure if BMW has one that old in there, or if the porsche pack has older cars that could race. And I’m sure you could throw in the older late 50’s early 60’s cars, but maybe put them in a different class. Like the old Jag and such.
Maybe the 66 Nova and some of the other Sedans. GTO’s the pontiac’s. Like Deeps Again has. Plus the next generation. Even though it has the 455.

The thing about the discrepancies in size engines is I would think if you pick a class, it’s going to level the playing field in the game. One might have more power but not handle as well. I’m not sure about all that and maybe it just wouldn’t be fair. I personally think A might be getting too good for what these cars were in actuality. I was thinking B class for the Pony cars and maybe C class for the smaller engine ones. Like the Alfa. Or maybe even D class for them. Or D for them and C for the Trans Am. I’m guessing you’d almost have to do A for the “prototypes”, like the GT40. But I would love to see a series like this.

Do you need special equipment to start your own races? I have the 250 gig xbox 360, does that extra space help? Not sure how all that works.

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The 240z “fairlady”.

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Definitely! I love me some historical Trans-Am, Historic Trans Am Designs and have others, too. The way I built my Trans-Am cars in Forza was not to a set performance index, it was in building each car to a specific weight : power ratio and it worked out pretty well. I also didn’t allow any new parts to be used so the builds were very basic. By new parts I mean, if the description says 6-speed, or carbon fiber, or anything that wouldn’t have been around pre-1975 I didn’t allow it to go on the car. I forced ABS, TCS, and STM off via the room rules too.

The real issues in using FM4 cars, as mentioned above, more often than not they aren’t the correct packages modeled. Just for example, Trans-Am had two classes: U2 for Under 2 liters [litres] and O2 for Over 2 liters. U2 is pretty self-explanatory, less than or equal to 2 liters was the maximum allowed engine volume. O2 class was a range between O2 and U5 because 5 liters was the maximum engine size. The U2 class eventually became the “Two-Five” challenge moving to a max displacement of 2.5 liters, and the O2 class was relaxed to allow 5.7 liter engines, both changes coming circa 1970. These changes were to align rule sets more evenly with other sanctioning bodies around the world.

The Trans-Am U2 class had cars like the Alfa Romeo Giulia, BMW 2002, Datsun 510, Austin / Morris Mini, MG MGB GT, etc. The BMW 2002 is turbocharged in Forza with no way to remove it. The muscle cars in Forza are exactly that, muscle cars. Pony cars were the same platforms (Javelin, Mustang & Cougar, Camaro & Firebird, Challenger & Barracuda) with small block 5 liter engines and it was this pony car class that was built to handle. I notice FM5 included a 1969 Boss 302 and that’s a good start. If only Turn 10 would allow us to custom shape the engines (increase and/or decrease bore and stroke).

1 liter ≈ 61.02374 cubic inches [1000 cubic centimeters] so 427 cubic inches ≈ 7.0 liters. 454 cubic inches ≈ 7.4 liters.
Engine volume is: bore squared × stroke × number of cylinders × (pi / 4).

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/Documents/Pro%20Racing/Archives/Trans-Am/1966.pdf
Copy the link above and paste it into a new tab / window. Also, you may alter the year to any year up to and including 2005. These are the box scores for each season.

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YES, power to weight ratio would be a great way to do that. Although I also think that the classes in the games does kind of even the playing field somewhat. But your way is definitely a step closer yet.

I think one way that could make it more fun is if cars that would’ve been allowed to run at LeMans were allowed too. Like the corvettes with the seven liter engines. I’m not really sure what those were considered but according to the link I posted they show as GT ??? I’m guessing like the current GT 1’s. Or I don’t even know if that’s what they’re called now since IMSA took over. Actually I think towards the end of the American LeMans series they were only running “GT” and weren’t doing GT 1 or GT 2 any more. But I don’t remember. But that’s more current than what we’re discussing here so I digress…

And then there are the vintage “prototype” cars. Like the GT40 and don’t we have a Ferrari or 2 that fall into that category? The 9 trillion zillion dollar one. P330 is it? I forget. I’m not sure if there are any more. Oh yeah, as I mentioned the Cobra Daytona.

Yeah, the Boss 302 would be perfect.

Anyways… Are you guys still doing these races? I still think opening the field to the other cars with the bigger engines would work as long as you keep them in the same class. Or give them a number rating that is less than the cars with smaller engines. I’m not sure how you would level that playing field exactly, but it would be fun to figure out. I also like your idea of making sure the upgrades fall into the vintage category. I still think a cap on tires should be part of that equation. Tires were different back than and I don’t think as good. Now they did seem to get some fat ones stuffed under some flared wheel wells though. So width is not as big of an issue as the materials. I’m thinking.

Those are great looking cars. I can’t see them that well because there’s this big box in front of them that wants me to login. LOL.

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I just realized I’m still using TCS in the game I think. I need to turn it off and see what it does. LOL. I just one my first race of the 2nd to last season in the world tour. At Catalunya. I did it in C class with a 70 Camaro. The races was long enough that I lapped a slow car and took first. But now I’m afraid of how my performance will be with that turned off. LOL AAAAAAAAAAAAAah. Plus I know that beating the computer isn’t saying much. But I still had fun. I like how the 70 Camaro handles, quite a bit.

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There should be a button (on the lower right, in the box) to hide the box.

I enjoy multi-class racing, having IMSA GT cars join SCCA T/A would be a fun blend.

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Have loads of builds that i’ve reached an built so weight and power is matching real cars in period not how they are now as many have been improved and further developed, I ran Drag tires as I liked endurance racing so liked the fact I could feel the tires going of but my Pre 66 cars ran stock tires and they 4 wheel slide through bends, great fun!

List of cars I have built to real specs are.

Alfa rome GTAm
BMW 3.0CSl (1973 spec)
BMW M1
Chevrolet Camaro (Frank Gardners BSCC Car)
Chevrolet Corvette, 7.0L engine swapped but can do similar power with 5.7l
De Tomaso Pantera Gr.4
De Tomaso Pantera GR.3
MG C GTS
Porsche 914GT
Porsche 911 Carrera RSR 74 (930 turbo)
Porsche 911 Carrera RSR 73
Porsche 911 ST 2.4 (2.7 engine)
Porsche 934
Porsche 934.5
Ferrari 365 GTB/4 Competzionne
Jaguar E-Type Lightweight
Lotus Elan 26R
Mustang Gt350 using a GT.
MG B (FIA Spec)

all are FIA spec cars a bit different to IMSA/SCCA spec cars and not all the displacements are correct due to wrong engines available, you can make more using power reductions in lobbies car like Cobra 289, 66 Porsche 911, 5.7L Ford Gt40 stuff like that. I even built some gr.B and GR.4 cars. I have more but there the ones I Know I have saved and finalised. Tried runing a champ but nobody interested in Real spec cars probably not helped by the fact that reliability and durability cannot be implemented so big powerful cars don’t break as much as they did when they where raced in the good old days so just run away from anything.

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This guy! Trust me, he knows his s**t.