If the car leveling system will be kept, then Turn 10 should do something about how builds are saved.
Going with the whole “Car-RPG” (CARPG to most), different builds of the car should be saved as different cars and not tunes to be applied to the car… Or if they should get the tunes and designs to be applied and loaded as quick as picking a different car. This would eliminate the need for a player to have to get a new car and level it up, because picking different build would be as quick as selecting a second or third copy of the car.
Organizing subsequent builds could be done in the car menu by having a plus symbol on a car with mutiple builds. For example, if a player has an S Class AE86 built for drifting, and they have a build for C Class racing, selecting the car should then show the two different builds. If the player is in a lobby or specific C Class event, the drift build would not appear due to it not meeting the class restrictions.
When talk of the level up system came about, I imagined this would be close to something Turn 10 would have put in the game to make the new system liveable. But seeing that they just tacked leveling into the game without thinking about it, is just a head scratcher.
There are some aspects of the car leveling system I do like. Earning parts for your car is close to early game in Sega GT 2002, which FM seems to be the spiritual successor of. But for this to happen with every single car is unfortunate because the grind never ceases. And Turn 10 did nothing to properly design the game around the mechanics of car leveling, which is why I want it removed. They half-stepped it, and made the game worse as a result.
It’s ironic they kept touting this whole “CARPG” system, yet it contains nothing real RPGs have other than mindless grinding.
Real RPGs often feature different character builds, as you pointed out. And they don’t have to be separate characters, either. In most RPGs, you can sometimes multi-class a character to receive added benefits… Similar to how you described using a single car, but tuning it for different disciplines.
I also agree, this system may have been tacked on late in development with absolutely no testing done at all, and/or by someone with no experience in designing reward loops?
If it had been tested, we wouldn’t be here… Or if T10 weren’t so intent on trying to be “different”, they could have just pulled the reward systems from previous Motorsport games, and especially Horizon, to make the system more rewarding and respectful of players time.
The horrible part of the “grind” is the arbitrary distance = X amount of CP. Reducing the level amount for parts did absolutely nothing to the grind, as you still need the CP to “pay” for said unlocked parts. There is no point to unlocking a part earlier if the CP you earned didn’t change when you can buy said part.
Also the order in which parts are unlocked. Have you tried the C32 AMG? This thing needs a diff, first and foremost, not 20 inch chromies. If all parts were available from the start but with a specific “car points price” then that’d be something at least.
Even if you don’t know how cars work IRL, logic suggests you want to make the car handle better before you add power.
Most of the Forza content creators also emphasize handling upgrades, first, in their Tuning guides. It makes sense because it doesn’t matter if you have 100HP or 1000HP, if you can’t control the car.
Handling and stability parts… Like simple tire compounds… Not being prioritized is further proof this system was not tested, nor possibly even made by someone who knows cars. SMH
Oh yes, I have. What I don’t get is that T-10 made it an open diff in the first place, when it was limited slip from the factory. I’ve said it before in another post, I swear T-10 purposefully de-performs many of the cars, so the parts seem more significant…
There we go then! A classic case of a car that SHOULD have a diff from the factory but doesn’t. I remember the Alfa Romeo 147 GTA fell in the same category. Probably many others. Sorry for doubting you Turn 10, you win this one!
They do this because they haven’t a clue about cars. And they don’t even put in the time to Google them to find out if they are doing the car properly. Just try any stock handling woobly woobly car. They almost all handle like they have worn out shocks. Which would be ok I guess if we could buy them for 100cr as used cars and then rebuild them. But we don’t. The developers are just not car people, plain and simple.
Months late, but I just had to add… The MB C63 AMG also came from the factory with an open diff (W204 with 6.2L V8), which was just silly for a RWD car with 450 hp. The C63S did have a limited-slip diff, but that higher trim tended to cost about $15K more than the “base” C63 AMG.
In all honesty I doubt those that played it and walked away would return no matter what.
I did and you know why that was, just for that one track, that’s it, nothing else. Don’t really care what cars are added in the future and there’s only 3 Tracks that could be added that I’ll use.
Maybe T10 could woo them back in another 6 months if the tracklist has more variety then drop a Version 2.0 Builders Cup that uses every class and track, clean up the penalty system and allow every track to be used in MP with the choice for A.I to be added.
But I don’t see them, those that got so annoyed with the game returning, ever
I know some guys who played FM early and quit, as they didn’t get a good feeling for the game.
When I mentioned recently that Nord was added and CarXP/CarPoints were now gone, they didn’t really care to revisit.
The only thing I can think of that would get them (the couple of people I personally know, that I’m talking about) to take another look at FM, would be a specific race series being integrated.
They like series with actual race cars (not 'builder" cars). So something relatively close-ish to real race series world that could be licensed (or already is, maybe).
In fact, the lack of actual Cup event featuring actual real world race cars was one of the reason they mentioned for uninstalling.
The team used their ace-in-the-hole (the Nordschelife) early out of desperation and that was met with a resounding “Meh.” Forza Motorsport 2023 is still Forza Motorsport 2023. That’s the main problem. Couple that with an absolutely glacial response time to issues and problems (unless IMSA announcers roast you on live television, and then things speed up a bit), 18/6, and the fact that the trajectory of the updates resembles that of a runaway golf cart, and the outlook moving forward is decidedly grim.
Honestly, I don’t think any of these players are coming back for anything less than an entirely new game, made with the knowledge that everyone involved with this one was thrown out of the door either publicly or when no one was looking. Barring that, what I think is more likely to happen is that the Motorsport brand gets the Rockstar treatment - which is never seeing another full release ever again and being used as nostalgia bait instead for Horizon post-launch content, much the same way Midnight Club, Smuggler’s Run, and other classic Rockstar games have been used to rope people into playing GTA Online (Ubisoft is also doing this with Splinter Cell and Sam Fisher).
Nothing short of a complete overhaul is going to get people soured by FM23’s first few months, to return. The game can’t look the same, can’t run the same, can’t sound the same and cannot have the same bad A.I. Once all those issues are fixed, some people might check the game out. When and if they do, there better be something to keep them intrested so, that means the game cannot have the same FOMO career.
No way that players coming back …one never has a second chance to make a good first impression…and it’s true for game too, especialy when lies have been most part of official communication…and don’t dream guys : Except some very crucial change (ie cars evolution…) to maintain the game “alive” no drastic modification will be implemented unless what already scheduled by turn10 …
Even the nordschleife failed to recover durable players count…so, all is said…
This FM is out…next chance will be the next one , if ever there is one …hoping that real car passion and player respect will be main part of its DNA …
Hope turn10 has understood the current lesson…even if i don’t care anymore in fact…
