So… several racing games this generation like Dirt 5 and F1 2022 has opted in for a 120 FPS performance mode on Xbox Series X|S (and PS5), but not all of them. Even a cross gen game like GT7 lacks any more frame output than 60 FPS.
The argument can be made about sim/simcade/arcade, but in the end Forza Motorsport is a realistic and detailed racing game where small details count, and one such crucial detail is input latency. The math is quite simple, one frame at 120Hz takes half the time to render than one frame at 60Hz, which effectively cuts 8,4ms of input lag. When you approach a corner at 400km/h, then you want to make sure that the timing is right. Further reduction of input lag will also remove that terrible visual lag between your real life steering wheel and the one in the cockpit view.
Turn 10 has only mentioned 4k 60 FPS for Series X and 1080p 60 FPS for Series S, so no mention at all about 120 FPS. They might be working on it, but they might also skip it like GT7 did. Having a 120 FPS mode will definitely help a lot in Forza’s path in being taken more seriously in the sim racing scene. It will not be default and it will probably not use ray tracing, but it will definitely play better, so please consider this Turn 10!
Does anyone else have any good arguments or wishes for including this (or even not including this)?
I would love to play FH5/FM8 on XSX in 4k 120fps but I can almost guarantee this will never happen.
I know Xbox recently made an update to allow developers to tap into some additional memory which was previously reserved for the OS but this won’t unlock more CPU/graphics power to support 120fps.
I think the only time we will be playing FM8 in 120fps will be when they announce the next console, the Xbox Series X One S.
I could agree with you about Forza Horizon 5, but I believe 120 FPS is definitely achievable on both Series X and S (especially X). Of course, it will never be 4k 120 FPS like you say, not a chance, but something like 1080p-1440p will free up a ton of GPU performance by itself, and then you will save more by reducing geometry detail, reflections, LoDs etc. Then you can also save CPU by limiting environmental animations like crowds, waving trees, helicopters and so on.
Understand my wish correctly here. There will have to be some big compromises to hit 120 FPS, but it will be worth it as an optional setting when you are pushing the car and the track to the limit and the pixels won’t help you.
I hear you. Btw this has definitely been requested numerous times in the past. I would also be interested in testing it.myseld to see which one I prefer. But again sadly it will never happen even if it’s possible.
Like the other guy said, it’s not really that common for TVs to support 120Hz, but there are quite a lot of people that play console games on a PC monitor as well. There are plenty of 1440p 144Hz FreeSync monitors that work wonders with a Series X or Series S.
And besides, the number of people that has 120Hz screens is increasing. Most flagship TVs today are 4k 120Hz, and the number will only increase in the future, just like with 4k support. In fact, you could argue that there will probably be more people playing Forza Motorsport in 120Hz (if it has that mode) than there will be people playing with a steering wheel.
An option in Forza Motorsport to play the game with a 120 FPS render target is highly sought after.
The new Forza Motorsport has been confirmed to run at 60 FPS at 4k/1080p on the Series X|S consoles respectively, but no other options have been disclosed as of yet.
Several racing games this generation includes such a feature, and it would do wonders in a competitive racer like Forza Motorsport. The reduced latency makes it much easier to perfectly time your brakes, and further reduction of input lag will also remove that terrible visual lag between your real life steering wheel and the one in the cockpit view.
Of course it goes without saying that this mode would be less graphically impressive, but that’s truly worth the inclusion.
Given the physics, collision model, 8 point tyre model, AI and more I feel even at 60Fps FM will be near the limits of the CPU, remenber double the frame rate will significantly increase CPU load
They are probably pushing everything to the max to get where they are now at 60, but there are definitely spaces where you can save quite a bit here.
In terms of CPU you can save quite a bit by limiting environmental animations like crowds, waving trees, helicopters, ferris wheels and more like you see in Dirt 5. Reflections will probably have to stay at 60 FPS and the damage model might be somewhat degraded. Hopefully a reduction of AI won’t be necessary.
In worst case scenario they can make an unstable mode available only for people with VRR screens like in Flight Sim, but that doesn’t sound like something T10 would do.
However, I do have massive faith in Turn 10 and their top tier technical skills. I do believe they can figure out a balanced way to do this, and I would love to see it.
They could make the setting compress audio files, disable Ray Tracing, less sharpening, etc. so I believe that this is doable. However, the question of how much will have to be disabled or descaled in order for this benchmark to be achieved? How will this affect gameplay?
The gameplay itself will only be positively affected as the reduced latency will making the game more enjoyable to play.
I don’t believe any core game functions have to be sacrificed to get enough performance headroom. You can shave off a ton of CPU by reducing/removing animations.
I do think the GPU and visuals are probably the least of your issues to hit 120fps. At most you could just drop the resolution and disable RT.
As for the CPU, if the physics are updated at double the framerate at 60fps, they could keep it the same for 120fps (120fps physics in both modes). Idk how feasible that’d be.
To be honest though, the main benefit of 120fps is lower latency, but latency has always been great anyway. Forzas latency at 60fps is probably better than a fair amount of games at 120, so it’s not the end of the world if 120fps isn’t available but it’d still be nice to have.
CPU is certainly the main challenge for sure, but I don’t think the physics engine itself is going to be the biggest nut to crack to get 120 FPS up and running though. The physics are already running way faster than the framerate now with 360 calculations per second, so even at 120 FPS the physics wouldn’t break down. Past games updated the physics at 60 calculations per second, just like the framerate.
Removal of ray tracing also gives some CPU headroom, but it’s probably animation and other scripts like AI that will take the biggest chunk of the CPU. I’d say that the biggest issue is the amount of cars on the track, as it would suck and be downright broken if the 120 FPS mode only let you race 12 car races instead of 24.
According to IGN, Turn 10 has confirmed that Forza Motorsport will be 4k60/1080p60 on Xbox and that’s it. Appearently the big reasoning behind not going beyond 60 FPS was for parity in the competitive scene, where 120 FPS players would have an advantage.
This is kind of laughable I must admit. The game has crossplay and cross progression with PC which can boast the framerate to several hundreds of frames if their hardware is capable enough.
Even GT7 has a 120 FPS mode now too. I sincerely hope that Turn 10 will consider this in a future update, because it is indeed a real shame. I guess that’s why we have this voting panel.