For the past few days, I’ve been really focused on bettering my position on the leaderboards for the two long LeMans tracks in C class. I know position means little to nothing on them, but I’m fixated on it now, so I can’t stop. I got LaSarthe to something like #124 or so and Old Lemans to something like #136. I kind of felt like I hit a wall at that point though, so I did a terrible thing. I turned TCS on. I haven’t used it in forever with any car I drove, but I kept losing control of my Camaro in the same exact spots. Well, I now have LaSarthe up to #75 and Old Lemans is up to #110, but it really does feel like I cheated. I know the exact spots I was having trouble with and can put the throttle down all the way in those areas without a worry. Its shaved roughly 3 seconds off both times, but I hate that it makes me feel like I cheated.
Did I?
I did happen to notice that a good portion of the top times on those tracks are done with TCS on. Some are up there without any assists, but some very recognizable names have it on.
Of course you didn’t, any more than if you’d upgraded your C class car from stock to the maximum PI. You took advantage of something that made the car run better, and you got a better [very impressive btw] time. That’s not cheating - lighten up on yourself!
You didn’t cheat, you simply took what was made available to you and used it to your advantage.
People want to believe that by not using it they are superior to someone else that does. That the guys at the top of the leaderboard would simply fall off. You can go back all the way to the old FM2 IFCA archives, if they are still available, to a series called JGTC that was run years ago. ALL assists were banned including the racing line and the drivers that did well in the series from then until the most recent on Virtual Motorsports which also banned all assists were still won by the fastest drivers. You just learn without it the same way you did with it.
Someone can claim aero is an advantage, that race tires are an advantage, etc, they do it all the time. If you are going for a spot on the leaderboard, to push your limits, then you need to do so with all the tools available to make you get there. It isn’t cheating and it isn’t wrong, I’d like it if it wasn’t helpful and it was faster to run without it but in a lot of cases it is not so I use it. If that’s what you want then you should to.
Most people that don’t use it do not think they are superior to those that do. There will of course be people that feel that way but I think they are the minority. TCS is faster in most cases so it is used by the top of the leaderboard drivers, plain and simple. If it were slower then they wouldn’t use it Lou. On the other hand, thanks to ForzaStats, there are two different LB’s, standard and hard core. When I first started FM5 I used TCS to get used to the controller (I have always been a wheel user) and since then I do not use it at all. I still have some old times up that used TCS and it doesn’t matter. I will go back and rerun those tracks though since I am concentrated upon the hardcore LB’s. It’s preference first and foremost. If you choose to use it or not use it, you are not cheating. In my case, if I use it, I am hurting my hardcore ranking. Being that I don’t use it, I am hurting my chances of setting better times in some cases…my choice.
I still always recommend newer players to learn to drive without it first. In my opinion it will make you a better driver in the long run. In past Forza’s TCS was not as overpowered and actually made you slower in some classes, if future Forza’s were to go back to that it wouldn’t matter since you learned to drive without it. You can then adapt your assists to the game and not the other way around.
You are one of the handful of people knowledgeable enough to know that it wouldn’t matter in the end and you’d do well with or without TCS.
I read tons on this forum and other forums. I cannot begin to count how many threads are created or posts made calling people with cheaters or hackers and if they turned it on like them they would dominate. Posts about “if I had his tune I’d get top 10’s all day”. I rarely, if ever, see anyone say the contrary.
I really don’t get that mentality. I haven’t been playing long, but its been long enough to know that the driver matters more than anything. I’ve driven several of Swerve’s tunes, but I’m not delusional enough to believe that just because its his tune I am going to run the same times as him. Someone else took the same car that I got to #75 with and they got it to #33 on LaSarthe. Again, the difference is they can drive better than me. Plain and simple…
By blaming the game, or a tune, or whatever, you’re only holding yourself back. I know where my weaknesses are and prefer to tackle them head on rather than blame anything. I think its made me a better driver and will continue to do so in the future.
Bottomline is I wanted a top 100 time without TCS and couldn’t do it. I’m a little bit disappointed in myself I guess…
You are miles ahead of a lot of people with your mentality. The top 100 without TCS will come soon enough, I think anyone paying attention to your progress can see it. Hopefully it comes on a track with a lot of people running it and you continue to push. If you settle for top 100 when you get there you’ll start moving in the other direction…stay hungry.
I’m not settling for anything. However, I am trying to be realistic with my goals. For me to come out and say I’m going to run a top 10 time by the end of the week would be foolish. So, for now, the goals have been limited to top 100. I have 2 top 100’s and would like to get at least 5 by the end of the month. On LaSarthe, I broke into the top 100 at #98 and then kept inching my way up little by little. I’ll still play around more with it, but I want to get better on other tracks with other cars too, so I won’t do much more with it for now. I did a little bit of racing online tonight and it felt weird to drive a car that actually gripped the road and didn’t go 191MPH.
Whoa guy - seriously? My advice as someone who went to med school: go play Peggle 2 for a few days, and think to yourself: Forza Motorsport 5 and Peggle 2 have one very important common attribute. You sound like you have the intelligence to figure out what that is …
I’m pretty confused by the above… Never played Peggle and probably never will. I’m not a gamer at all, just a Forzaholic. What’s wrong with not settling for anything? I really enjoy pushing myself to get better, so not settling for anything is fun for me.
If you went to Med school, could I get you to take a look at my aching shoulder?
Ha. Ive been lucky enough not to hear that nonsense. I always hear ABOUT these people but never from them it seems.
I agree you were not cheating. I dont use it but would never complain that the top guys do. The top guys would beat me in a slower car!
However if I turned it on I might feel like I cheated too!
Did you cheat us??? No way bud. Not at all. Those are great times and you did it.
Did you cheat yourself??? Maybe. If that is how you feel about it then that is how you feel.
There is nothing wrong with using TCS. I know i use it when i feel like i need to with a certain tune on a certain track. C class cars arent built to go that fast so ofcourse i would turn it on for that track. You know how to drive with or with out it so now you have the option of turning it on or off. Good time on the le mans tracks lou and keep it up.
no you did not cheat, you used technology to make you faster, thats how it is in the real world.
for example, some cars now have body and/or chassis made of carbon fiber, which is much lighter (and stiffer) than steel or aluminum or fiberglass, so is that car cheating because its using technology (carbon fiber) to its advantage? i think not. when disc brakes became superior to drum brakes, were the cars with disc brakes cheating?
technology advances and improves things and in performance cars makes them faster.
now is it more fun to use drum brakes and turn off TCS? maybe, but thats a personal opinion and to some people being faster IS fun.
I don’t know if it made me happy or not. It feels like the time we stole the teacher’s textbook (the one with all the answers in it) in Algebra class back in high school. I got an A that year. I probably would have anyway, but it just made everything so much less work.
Is this guilty feeling payback for stealing Mr Erwin’s Algebra2 texbook??? I always knew that was going to come back to haunt me one day
i should also say i dont use any assists at all with sim steering and thats my personal preference knowing i could be faster with TCS and normal steering. but playing like that and getting consistent top 1% times is a source of satisfaction/pride for me, as well as i feel more immersed in the act of driving like that.
