I have to ask this because I race in cockpit view and I’ve had this happen to me more times than I can count now. I don’t know if I’m doing something wrong or if the other driver is the one who made the mistake. My racing is formulated from basic racing strategies, watching the errors of the driver in front of me to look for a chance to pass, and also knowing where my car should be on the track if I am racing side by side with someone. But I’ve had many collisions happen where I don’t know if I was going to fast and misjudged the corner or if the other driver was at fault so I’d like an outside perspective as to whether or not I did something wrong and if I could have done something better to prevent these collisions because I’m honestly not entirely sure what else I could have done other than completely giving up the position but that just doesn’t seem logical since I was alongside the cars before the turn in point which means I should have the right of way to be there and this is racing after all. No this does not mean that I’m going to sit there and try to go 2 wide on a chicane, if I’m further back or on the inside I’ll usually give that up and try again some other time etc. You can see me do that here as well. Thanks for your time.
As a general tip, either cut the video, or tell people when the incidents are happening. If i didn’t miss anything, you have uploaded a 6 and a half minute video, for a 3 second incident, around the 1:14 mark in the video.
I don’t usually drive online, i prefer hot laping, so i might be wrong, but from my judgment it was the other guys fault, i assume that he missed his braking point.
Not a lot that you can do about that. Check your back mirror before going into the corners and if you feel like someone is coming in too aggressive, better to get out of the way. In this case its unlikely that the guy would have stayed on the track. You would have lost a second or two, but that is still better than being rammed off the track.
Edit: It would also be useful to have his perspective in the video, with telemetry.
Oh I’m sorry I meant all contact I will make time stamps and I don’t care about him ramming. That’s the least of my worries.
The points of contact that I am referring to are the first corner at the start of the video the collision with the fairlady at 36 which continued through the next corner, and when I collided with the lambo at the 4 minute mark.
I thought it wasn’t my fault but I just want to be sure because this stuff keeps happening over and over and over again so I don’t know if it’s my racing that’s at fault and if I should do something differently or not. If not then I’ll just keep going along and be more mindful of things like this in the future, if so then I’d like to make the necessary adjustments. Thanks.
Some rubbing and brushing is part of racing, i didn’t see those incidents as anything noteworthy, just some door to door racing.
In the first corner incident you would have had space on the outside, he could have taken a tighter line, but he left a cars width of space on the outside, so he can’t be blamed.
In the second incident the main issue is bad forza physics. They went from repelling cars in the speed of light to gluing them together every time cars have minor contact. I´m not sure if i would blame the other guy for the initial contact, he slides about a bit and touches you, but nothing serious.
The third incident i guess you can blame it on the other guy, either he should close the door on you, or he would have to leave you a bit more space.
So the first incident you could have avoided by taking a wider line, the other two there wasn’t much you could have done differently in my opinion
How could I have taken a wider line for the first corner? Look at where my car is going, it’s directly on the outside of the track, I think I already took the widest line possible. Maybe I could have gone a bit wider but that’s asking for the impossible from just about any driver. Maybe I should have just given up the position, I probably could have taken it back later anyway.
I went wide because there are 2 cars, you can’t turn in normally 2 wide, I was not in the middle of the road, look at the trajectory of my car. . .
Edit: When you’re going 2 wide, you give enough space, to me it looks like he carried too much speed through the corner. He took a sharper line at a faster speed so it looks like he was ahead when he wasn’t. I was expecting him to say on the inside line, not be in the middle of the road. How am I cutting in the middle of the road when my trajectory is towards the outside?
The optimal racing line is also to go wide. I already went as wide as possible and I went towards the outside of the track. Going further outside is putting me into the grass. You have to prepare for the next corner as well. It would be impossible for me to take the next corner being 100% on the outside line. Because I was already on the outside and in front of him, I expected for him to leave enough space for me to be on the inside, ie. he should have been on the inside and not in the middle of the road. Imagine this, if I hung with him which was obviously too dangerous to do since he had a speed car rather than a cornering car, would I still have been shoved off the track anyway?
Also, rubbing is not racing. Forza is literally the only racing title that calls itself a “sim” where you can have ANY contact and not be penalized for it. Take that attitude into any other sim racing game (which forza is not by the way) and see how far that attitude gets you. That’s why I’m trying to figure out if I’m giving enough room or not and apparently people here think that I’m not so maybe I might try to give more space. But I was already on the outside on that first corner. Do you expect me to drive in the grass instead of on the road? That line would have been mine whether I stuck with him or not.
Pause the video at 0:04 and tell me this dude left enough space and did not cross over onto the outside line again because I can take a screen shot of that and put the measurements on there for you since you think I didn’t hold my line properly.
No where does Forza call itself a “sim”, and we all know it’s not a true sim. While I know it’s only in a few select public hoppers right now, with the new FRR you do get penalized for contact. The FRR will almost certainly be implemented in full in the next release.
Forza is not a “Sim” but hopefully FM8 goes bit more in that direction.
You’ll get many different perspectives, this is why FM8 needs (along with FRR) an instructional demonstration and licence test regarding regulations and etiquette as they apply to Forza multiplayer.
My general point of view (I did only skim through video sorry).
Regulation; In simple terms the lead car, even if that car is ahead by only a bumper they can dictate the line. I.e If they have got ahead legitimately into the corner, they’re free to take the optimal line, it’s not your line and you must either choose alternative line or may need to back off a little to maintain current line. Ideally you defend your inside into the corner so you kept your car in front, then you can dictate the line.
Etiquette; it’s more acceptable and often better and to leave some space to lessen risk of making avoid making contact or losing time. If other car is clearly quicker (gaining on you) don’t lose time trying to block them, just relax your defending somewhere that suits (like entry into a slow corner) and you’ll likely benefit from following the faster car.
If other car is not quicker (lap time), you can and should reasonably defend (move once to defensive line before braking) but be conscious of your aggression. If your defence fails (like the lambo’s against your lunge) then consider backing off or modifying your line to attempt a re-pass later.
If you are at the door (and in some cases the rear tire) by the turn in point it is your corner as well. Once again, he was behind, not ahead. It looks like he is ahead because he charged in and did not slow down enough and crossed the center line onto the outside. Where was I going to go? Stop completely with a pack of cars behind me?
He did not have the right to do that, according to actual race regulations, I was actually in front of him and choose to take the outside line. He, therefore, had the obligation to take the inside line. He carried too much speed into the corner and did not hold his line. I actually left a lot of space, look at the pictures, it shows the point of contact and where we both were on the road. I was actually going slower than normal, he was not. He clearly crossed onto the outside line which I had the full rights to since I was the leader into the corner. He charged in and pushed me off the road. It’s as simple as that. I also didn’t block anyone in this race, you can see me move out of the way and the fastest car was me as you can see in the video gaining more than a second on the leader from a single lap.
I don’t think the lambo was lunged. I was close behind him and showed my intent to take the inside line. He had speed, I had handling. I outbraked and stayed on the inside line. If he wanted for me to not do that he should have been in the middle of the track and closed the door and not allowed me to do so. A lunge means I would still have been braking at the turn in point, he turned in early and there’s no way he would have made that corner at that speed anyway, he would have had to slow down and brake at the end of the corner. His line honestly was garbage and I probably should have waited. I don’t know what his skill level is or if he would give space like he should have.
Explains cornering rights very clearly. Pause the video at the turn in point, my nose was ahead, we had equal rights to that corner, it was not his to dictate at all. I simply took the corner wide to give enough space because he had no handling and I expected him to slow down and get on the inside line so there was enough space for both of us. He did not do that and even crossed over onto the outside lane, once again, freeze frame it at 0:04 seconds, and pay attention to the next corner on the track and where you expect to be for the most optimal line.
1st Contact - 0:03 vs Chevrolet Corvette Stingray - In my opinion you’re fault. You were somewhat too quick into the corner and tried to correct your line while the other guy was holding his line.
2nd Contact - 0:36 vs Datsun 240Z Fairlady - Difficult to tell. The other guy went a bit to quick and started sliding in the corner, that why you two made contact. Unfortunately your vehicles got stuck due to FM7’s magnetic glue effect on contact, that’s why you both could not separate.
3nd Contact - 1:13 vs Datsun 240Z Fairlady - Seems like a ramming attempt. 100% his fault.
4th Contact - 4:00 vs Lamborghini Countach - Also difficult to tell. You seemed to be bit quicker in that corner. When the other guy tried to turn left, he probably did not notice you coming so quickly from behind and you made contact.
Slows down and takes the optimal line >
Says I went too quick >
Corvette crosses the center line >
Uh dude did you actually watch that? He didn’t hold his line, once again, look at the pictures. How is a car supposed to be side by side with you if you only give them enough room to get onto the grass? Freeze frame this at 0:04 and 0:03 like I did, and you can clearly see he crossed the center line. No one, and I mean no one, would be able to squeeze into that gap. That’s not the inside line for that corner and since I was ahead I took a wider line intentionally to make sure we both had enough space.
Sorry, I didn’t watch it at all. I just guessed based on the other comments what happened in the video.
From what I read here it’s clear that your intentions with this topic were not to ask others how they would judge those moments. You were actually hoping for people to side with you. I bet the other players in your video had a different perspective on “who’s fault it was”.
I think it’s the cockpit view causing your problem. I assume you changed the view in the video cause you said you drive cockpit. Can you post the video in cockpit? Same thing happens with the bumper cam. It is probably worse in bumper than cockpit but you cannot always see someone trying to pass you. If you leave the tiniest gap they will go for it and you will collide because you cannot see what they are doing. Looks like that is what happened when you got into it with the red car. He thought you were trying to push him off the track or wreck him, He gets annoyed and takes revenge. Happens a lot in a collision. Advice be extremely careful in that view. You need to be extra aware. People in chase which is most can see a lot better around them than you. I struggle with this as well so I stick to ghost most of the time.
I will so you can see it from my point of view. It’s hard not to drive cockpit since that’s how I’ve driven for so long now. Maybe I should try hood cam or something.
Right out of the gate, the vette actually left you just barely enough room on the outside. But instead, you shunted the side of his car.
2nd instance with red/white zebra, perhaps you didn’t notice at the time, but he dove into the turn too early and couldn’t hold a decent line through, hence understeering into you.
I’d say be more aware of what those are doing around you. Notice in the 2nd instance, you gave him plenty of room to come over so he could take the corner better, but instead he started in the middle and went in early anyway, plenty of bad drivers in Forza. There isn’t any damage, so it doesn’t really matter. Though, in actual racing, it’s the drivers responsibility to do the best they can to finish the race with their car preferably in the same shape as when you started.
In most cases, irregardless of who was technically at fault, there are more than 1 of you involved in the incident, so the fault is shared equally. You can either drive more defensive and don’t put yourself on the outside of a turn when someone who can barely stay on track is on your inside. Or do the opposite and become more aggressive. The race regulation hoppers seem to have fairly clean racing, but if you get flustered at minor contacts like these, you may want to switch to iRacing, which gives both drivers penalties regardless of who was at fault.
Forza is what it is; adapt, move on, or keep being annoyed… the choice is yours.
