before i go to bed and cry again, i will just write this thread.
Who the f*** of the developers thaught about “inventing” a new transmission physic or engine?
Nearly every car shifts like a race car. Some cars have DSG Transmission and should have a nice smooth and very fast shifting and maybe this “DSG Fart” aswell. (like in Horizon 3)
But every car shifts like there is no clutch, and the rev counter jumps around. This is sooo unrealistic. I mean, did someone of the devs maybe drove a car in real life. i think not!
If they copy/paste the transmission from Horizon 3, i would be soooo happy with the game. But the current transmission engine, just made the game worse.
Does anyone have the same opinion?
sorry for mistakes! This text was written in rage and i´m german
100000% agree with you. Makes no sense they couldn’t spend the time to get this right. Assetto Corsa was a train wreck but at least the shifting was correct. Hopefully they address this, but I’m not holding my breath.
Being a sim or arcade racing game has absolutely ZERO relevance. This is not a physics based issue but simply a design choice or rather an oversight.
It is good that people are talking about issues because being old time Forza players, we shouldn’t have to lower our standards every time a newer game comes out.
Noticed it with the RS6 and E63 first, those are luxury cars.
If they would actually shift like that you would have a massive whiplash before you even left your garage.
looks, sounds and feel like a 16 year old on his first driving lesson with a manual car
Actually our real-life AMG shifted the exact same way. It was one of the things that surprised (and later irritated) us in real life. Our only conclusion was that AMG had intentionally gone for this style of shift (because surely they would been able to engineer it differently if not). In this regard then we’ve actually found the game to be quite realistic.
The other point I would add is that video-games try to replicate the same sensation you would get from driving the car in real life. The problem is that video-games can’t make use of the same range of sensations. For example when a powerful car accelerates in-game you don’t actually get pinned back into your seat. Your sofa (or gaming chair) doesn’t dive under braking, or transfer weight mid-corner. As a result video-games sometimes exaggerate the sensations they can communicate in order to compensate for those that they can’t.
The other aspect to consider is that Forza offers three levels of shift behaviour: auto, manual and manual with clutch. There’s a huge difference between how these transmissions behave in-game. These three options are also available on every car in the game - regardless of whether the car has the same options in real life. So how then should the transmissions be represented? What setting should be the benchmark?
If I want perfect realism and if I’m driving a Golf R, for example, with DSG then technically there shouldn’t be an in-game option to drive manual with clutch. The car simply doesn’t have a clutch in real-life that the driver can operate (I do know how a DSG works so don’t correct me here with the point that it has two clutches - the driver still can’t operate them). The in-game automatic option would work as the car has a full-auto mode in real life. The in-game manual option would work as the real life car also comes with a manual mode and flappy paddles.
Likewise if I want perfect realism and if I’m driving a Golf R, again for example, with a 6 speed manual then the argument reverses. The only in-game option should be manual with clutch. There shouldn’t be an option to drive full auto. There shouldn’t be an option to drive manual only.
Turn 10 however have decided to offer every single car in the game with the option to drive full auto, manual or manual with clutch. The shift behaviour then for each car needs to be a compromise depending upon the option the player has chosen. And this compromise also needs to factor in that the player simply can’t experience the transmission in a realistic fashion - the game simply can’t compete with the range of sensations that we get in real life.
EDIT:
One more point to consider is the range in shift behaviours that we actually have - even within a specific car. For example the real life Golf R comes with the option for DSG or a 6 speed manual. Which version of this car should Turn 10 reflect in-game? The DSG because it’s faster? Or the 6-speed manual because in the real world it’s more involving, and therefore a better representation of what the driving enthusiast might choose? Or what about cars that can electronically change their shift pattern? You can drive a modern AMG or Audi RS model in comfort mode and enjoy smoother, more comfortable shifts. Or you can put them in Sport+ or even Race mode and have the shifts bang home like the hammer of Zeus. What mode should Turn 10 reflect in-game? Comfort mode because it’s how most people drive them most of the time? Or Sport+/ Race mode because it’s faster?
It’s so stupid, a Nissan GTR should shift like instantly, overlapping each gear. But Forza makes it like someone is pressing the clutch, shifts, and releasing it. It’s sounds like nothing…
From experience, the current games all do some form of clutch simulation, even for those faster transmissions. When you drive manual with clutch, you’re in control of something faster than a human.
The SLS AMG in Project CARS shifts smoothly without the automatic clutch enabled, but you can notice the rev bumping into the limiter for a very brief moment if you don’t lift. It’s definitely not the same as using the automatic clutch, when it’s then as smooth as you’d expect a DCT to be.
I have experience with Volkswagen’s DSG, it is indeed very smooth when cruising, not so much when accelerating, but still very quick. Can’t speak for cars I don’t have any experience with, though.
And in Horizon everything is exaggerated, the transmission shifts in an instant, the tires lose grip very easily… Over there it’s the manual transmissions which are extremely unrealistic and shift as quick as a DCT when fully upgraded.
The 3 levels of behaviour are all the same, just certain aspect become automated depending on setting. the gearbox model is the same for every car in the game, the only thing that actually changes between cars are the amount of gears, gear ratios and shift time delay.
Manual with clutch gives the player full control of throttle clutch and gear selection.
Manual only gives the player control of gear selection, clutch and throttle become automated during gear changes. (clutch is disengaged in perfect timing with the shift time delay, throttle is cut on up shifts and bliped for downshift)
Automatic removes all control and shifts at a RPM threshold.
If your chasing realism with gearboxes in forza your not going to find it, the system is bare bones basic.
[Engine (RPM)]-[clutch]-[gearbox (no. of gears, gear ratios, shift time delay)]-[wheel RPM]
