Upgrades and upgrade dynamics very... Off?

Forza Horizon Legacy Horizon FH3 Discussion
1

Basically as the title reads.

The upgrade dynamics in this game seem very bizarre. For example, trying to tune. low-ish end car with better tyres takes it from, say, a C class to a low S1, there the far becomes absolutely shockingly slow for its class because it’s heavier/very under powered.

Therefore, the way to correct this and bring it to the top of a class is to put a bit more power in and put better platform upgrades in, right? Wrong. Sure, you can put all the handling upgrades in you like, but you get, maybe 20pi points for it? So then you’re having to stuff the engine with twin turbos and extensive engine upgrades. Ok, so scrap the tyres. Sure. Then end up with a car that’s slippery and vague.

The result is an 800-1000hp mess that’s wayy too powerful for its chassis to cope with. On previous games, my philosophy was to tune a car to no more than 2 classes above standard, and that’s just not possible on FH3. On top of that, because of racing online etc, ever car was tuned to its top-of-class rating (B|500, etc), and it’s a habit that has stuck since the days of FM2. In this game, it cannot be done. An example, the 2017 Ford GT comes standard as an S2|914 (numbers could be off, this is from memory), and with an AWD system, 910hp, racing tyres, and every upgrade possible, it’s at around an S2|970 (or so). This probably aggravates me more than it should, but the principle stands.

Now, perhaps I’m just too sensitive to change and haven’t got used to the new system. Maybe my desire that every car I owned had to be to the top of its class is too OCD-ish. However, am I the only one which thinks this upgrade system has a very odd dynamic about it? I’m not declaring T10 change the system, I just fail to understand, that’s all :slight_smile:

7 Likes
2

On the one hand my view is a change is as good as a holiday.

With regards to tyres and power I could not care less. Most cars I can still do what I used to do but then I very rarely do much with D class cars although I do have an awesome 71 GTR in A class.

With regards to not being able to get to the rounded PI I have been raising it as an issue for ages.

In FM6 the devs seemed to go with non max PIs for career groupings but these can not apply for class based lobbies online.

If they want to go with car types then do it throughout the whole game and completely drop the class system.

3

Yes the upgrading is shockingly stupid.

To top cars that start in D class at the top of D class I’m frequently having to put 700-1000hp in the car.

For C class it’s 700-1500hp.

This is all assuming no awd swap. A lot of times the car still doesn’t top out in C.

What I’ve learned is that if the car is rwd, you should awd swap it. This will net you crazy increases in handling and then you top off the car with a ton of power. The awd swap acts like a tire upgrade.

It’s absolutely mind boggling that adding street or sport tires increases the PI several hundred points but power and just about every other upgrade is minimal effect.

Basically building cars in lower classes is a mix between FM2 missile cars and FM3 awd swap everything. And if you want to keep it rwd with 1000+ hp and 2500 or less pounds, just use TCS. It doesn’t bog you down one bit and adds a little more grip to the car. Lol.

The whole thing is pretty comical.

2 Likes
4

C and D were my favorite classes in H2 and I never upgraded the tires other than widening them as it was quite expensive in H2 to upgrade the rubber as well although maybe not as much as in H3. Point is I never did it. But with almost identical builds to what I made in H2 the D class here is much more drifty. And I don’t like or want drifty. It is still early though and I am still working things out with a zillion cars to test and build. One of my favorite cars was my C class 57 Chevy because it handled so well. The one I built in H3 almost identically slides all over the place. Hopefully I will be able to adapt to the new game and build cars that feel right to me.

5

Plenty of people asked for it though ie adding stupid amounts of power.

6

I dont think anyone really asked for ‘stupid amounts of power’, in a serious capacity outside of the NFS players. (drifters maybe?)

There are those that can drive a missile, and those that cant. Its pretty clear cut, and has been since FM2.

While there are upgrades in any forza title, it wont ever be balanced. It is a nigh impossible task. That is the real problem.

You lean one way and users will go the other and vice versa. HP ceilings arent the answer either though. It nullifies a number of vehicles in of itself depending on class.

7

Of course. I doubt this is what was expected.

For example, one of my solid medium track tunes for D class in FM6 (maybe a top 150ish tune) is A class in FH3. And in FM6 you’d be lucky to get 400hp out of most cars in D class, but in FH3 I can fit 1500hp+ in multiple cars.

I can understand some leeway for unrealistic racer, but since Horizon uses FM’s physics/upgrading you’d think it wouldn’t be that much of a difference.

I don’t mind missile cars because I can drive them pretty good, but it is annoying struggling to top cars in classes because tires bump everything to at least B class.

8

The TLDR version: HP counts too little and tires count WAY WAY too much on PI tuning.

You shouldn’t be able to add 500+hp to any car and keep it in the same PI Class. And a simple sports tire (not even race, just sports!) SHOULDN’T EVER jump you from a C to an A.

The current system is broken.

10 Likes
9

Yeah, it seems the PI system in FH3 puts a huge premium on handling upgrades.

I was trying to build an offroad van last night. I was absolutely floored: The offroad tires ALONE bumped the Vandura from low D class (≈180 pts) to C class.

C CLASS! It’ll barely go 100mph and it’s in C class? Unreal! I hope they adjust this in future CU.

5 Likes
10

I thought I was losing my mind lol. Tuning/ upgrades are just waaaay off compared to last several FM titles. Be great if this was fixed. (AND GETTING TOTALLY STUCK ON A TINY ROCK OFFROAD!!!)

2 Likes
11

While I agree the tiny rock highsiding your car totally sucks. This is one of the things they did more accurately in the game LOL. Take a street car off road and catch a rock bigger than 10 inches you ain’t going anywhere.

12

This is frustrating for how they have chosen to handle setting up online events, which used to be purely class-based in FH2, but now that is an effort to achieve. But it’s not necessarily that much better even within class, because any off the shelf car is going to be smoked by a top of class tuned one. I don’t like what they have done here, and wish class was still the main decision for online races, and actually meant something in terms of speed difference.

1 Like
13

It’s just a dumb mess. Lucky the game is so grippy to begin with, otherwise it would be exclusively drift and drag. Why they would actively discourage balanced builds is beyond me. Are they wall-rider fans?

3 Likes
14

Wallriding now gives you a dirty lap.

I do not believe they are actively discouraging balanced builds, well not game wide.

The issue affects some cars but not all. A class leaderboard times are still possible in balanced builds, there are just more muscle options to go along with the balanced builds.

It may have been an attempt to shake up the leaderboard car issue. Problem is it affects the lower classes savagely.

Once you get up to around about A class things get closer to what we know from previous games.

2 Likes
15

700hp evos and subbies with stock tires in A doesn’t sound balanced to me.

2 Likes
16

Honestly they really need to balance some cars in this game, because the way it is right now is ridiculous.

I’m not driving lower class cars, so my experience comes from A and S1. Two classes that would be nicely balanced with many cars, if it weren’t for those V8 swapped and charged rally cars.

Been trying out tuning many cars in S1 and so far it’s the 570S that comes close or can keep up with the Impreza in S1, also saw one NSX on one of the circuits in Byron Bay (rivals). But the important thing here is while trying these cars out, I realised that so many cars in S1 are competitive against each other if it weren’t for the Impreza or the 570S.

It’s still early in the game though and we cannot know which cars are going to pop out.

17

I’m doing pretty much the same thing, focusing on A and SI class for now. I built a Maserati MC12 that almost hangs with the best of the best WRXs and Evos on almost all tracks. The McLaren F1 is close. There are a lot of cars close in S1, but the WRXs and Evos still dominate, rocketing out of corners. If it wasn’t for them, S1 would be really be a great class.

One of the reasons I’ve stuck with A and S1 for now is that I’ve gotten a feel for how the game has PI cost for hp and handling, and then built 2 B class cars that got right near the top of a couple leaderboards in one lap. Both were exercises in stuffing in as much power as possible, and I figured it must be even worse in the lower class cars and I didn’t want to be mad at the game when I’ve been enjoying it so much. There’s been a lot of well-put opinions and observations in this thread, and while I doubt anything will (or can) be done in this game, I hope the characteristics of these classes don’t make it into future games. I used to really like driving lower class cars because the difference in races used to be about making or not making tiny errors, and it felt different than racing the extremely fast cars. If you really can get a D class to put out 1000+ horsepower, then D class is dead to me. I’m glad I didn’t start with D like I did in FH2.

18

Sure about the MC12? I didn’t try driving it, because it didn’t manage that 100mph/160km/h simulation in the setup section in under 5 seconds. I’m sure it’s Handling is sufficient, but the 570S can do it under 5 seconds and has a terrificly good handling to match that. (V10 swap + semislicks).

Haven’t tried the F1 yet.

It’s just sad. S1 is my favorite class in FH2, because it has so many cars that are competitive against each other…Anyway crying what change anything, because as you stated already they definitely won’t change the system…

19

The MC12 is a really strong S1 car. I got it to #12 on the Three Bridges Circuit leaderboard in 2 laps (all the times ahead were WRXs and one Evo, I think), and it does Goliath in about 10:15, even though it is not a pure power car and tops out in either the high 220s or 230s… Because it still handles well, it’s a good all around car for things like point to point races. I took it a few places and made just a few runs, but I didn’t see any faster times anywhere I took it that weren’t WRXs or Evos.

I actually made four versions and 3 were more handling builds, but the strongest S1 build requires the engine swap, turbo and the spoiler, and you have to settle for stock springs. But you still can get the anti roll bars for it and it has such a good chassis that the race springs really aren’t necessary … I didn’t have to do anything crazy with the ARBs. The handling rating is 7.7 but feels better than that, and has close to 900 hp. I’d definitely recommend it.

20

Wow it even sounds like we have multiple build options on the same car :wink: