Another opinion based on nothing. I have not read in any of the notes any information from them making and updates or changes to the physics. FFB yes, physics to the best of my knowledge have remained unchanged.
Pretty much this, the core physics and tyre model has remained mostly unchanged since FM4, suspension simulation supposedly was slightly improved on the move to xbox one, and I believe tyre temp/grip was also slightly changed at the same time.
T10 almost always tweak the steering input sensitivity/filters for gamepads from game to game though, which is where I think Alot of people get that opinion of “these physics were better”. I’m a strong believer that you shouldn’t really be comparing the physics unless your on a wheel and using sim steering. Even then the ffb can have a huge difference to how each game ‘feels’, you need to be very good at knowing how to remove that from your opinion of the physics
Correct, not much has changed since Forza Motorsport 4.
If I’m correct, the suspension was revamped for the next generation, mainly to facilitate open wheel cars like IndyCar and F1. Didn’t they also tweak the suspension to accommodate for cars such as the Mercedes Truck and the BMW Issetta? I remember hearing that back in the Forza Motorsport 6 days when they were added. I also heard that when the Morgan 3 wheeler was added to Horizon 3. Though even if they did tweak the suspension, I’m sure that’s more or less just for those specific cars and doesn’t effect anything else. Though I could be very wrong or misheard. I guess you could class drift suspension as a revamp but that’ll only effect cars you have drift suspension on though here’s something interesting, according to the Forza Horizon 3 developer files, some cars have 42°+ steering lock which does mean if you use drift suspension, you can actually reduce angle in some cars, that is of course, if Horizon’s steering angle carries over to Motorsports which I’d assume it does. They also fixed the magic camber from FM5.
As for tires, they probably get ever so slightly change them year on year. I’d image all they change is the peak friction between compounds or in general and maybe the operating window or how much grip there is at a given temperature. Either way it’s nothing major.
Downforce to my knowledge has been simulated the same way forever using what I believe to be “if speed doubles downforce quadruples” though again, I can’t be sure on that. What I can be sure on however is that aerodynamic bleed and active aerodynamics aren’t simulated and never have been and it’s easy to prove. Just take a car with an air brake, turn the braking pressure to 0% and you’ll see that the air brake does nothing to show down the car, ergo, it’s baked into the physics braking system and is not acting as its own component.
The only way to compare physics from game to game is using a wheel. That is the only way to get the raw input and physics. Comparing the physics on a controller is pointless because of the hidden assists Forza incorporates and the fact they change the filters every year when it comes to the gamepad. What most people assume is a change in physics is actually a change in controller filters. A wheel can only give you the closest feel for what has changed in the physics but the force feedback has an effect on that too so you have to look for certain things to decifer the changes in the physics.
Why can’t you compare a game’s physics through a controller? I did just that and feel that PCAR2’s physics are far superior. I’ve tuned the controller to somewhat behave like Forza’s, although I’m not using any assists, dampers or aids at all, which is the case with Forza’s hidden pad aids.
Because you’re not getting raw inputs or physics from a controller. You can compare them but because there’s filters and hidden assists, it’ll make differentiating between what was changed physics wise or controller wise extremely hard because you’re not getting raw inputs or physics and because the filters change from game to game.
To clarify, I’m not suing its hard to compare forza to other titles, I’m saying it’s tough to compare Forza to it’s previous titles.
And yes a wheel with Forza does completely remove all aids on a wheel if ‘Simulation Steering’ is on. Then you get raw inputs with no hidden aids. There is an option to turn on controller filters for the wheel but I can’t understand why one would do that.
It’s too bad that sim steering does not remove aids on a controller. The steering feels so loose and quick when you loose grip and start to countersteer - but feels stiff and restricted when you’re trying to turn hard and hit that apex at just the right angle. This I cannot understand at all - because the braking is apparently tied to steering in Forza’s pad steering. How odd - braking would give you better front wheel bite you’d think, but the driver actually stops steering mid-corner even if you lightly dab the brakes.
They should honestly do away with this speed sensitive/peak friction aid on pad. It’s downright silly and makes the game more arcady than it has to be.
This is correct, braking does not give you a better bite at all it has a high chance of locking up because you are exerting the grip anyways, what braking mid corner will do is shift more weight forward especially to the outside front corner. The only reason this may give you any increase in grip is because that weight adds pressure to the wheel making the wheel deform more and slightly increasing the contact patch. This is very minimal and likely wont do what u are asking it to do. However braking depending on bias may adjust your balance and swing the rear of the car around a little. The other thing that happens and this is the most beneficial portion is when you dab the brake in the corner it slows the car down, slowing the car down should put u under peak grip and allow the fronts to gain more grip upon releasing the brakes.
No, that’s not what I was getting at. If I’m even lightly dabbing the brakes, that should hve no bearing on the steering wheel movement, right? My driver immediately stops steering and actually gets ready to countersteer from the animation - as soon as I even feather the brakes.
This is not realistic at all. I’ve noticed this in all their past FM and FH games. Rally and tarmac drivers feather the brakes all the time mid-corner to hit the apex properly. In Forza this has no effect but in fact, causes your car to understeer more. Totally bizarre.
Just because the steering angle reduces, it does not mean you’re steering less. This steering angle reduces because, in most stock cars and real life cars, the brakes are pushed quite fat forward to prevent the car from snapping at the rear. It’s for consistency and safety.
When you trail brake, the steering angle reduces because you’re overloading the front tires and are exceeding the front peak friction. Look at the telemetry when you’re braking. In reducing the steering angle you’re actually increasing the grip in the front tires (as you’re bringing them back closer to peak friction) and you’re actually turning more and carrying a higher apex speed and more rotation.
If you want more bite and rotation under braking, you can just set the rear brake bias more rearward or adjust the differential.
Forza physics just overreact to everything. They seem to operate on largely binary principles. Car physics have a general rule, like only brake in a straight line, get all your braking done before you get to the corner, don’t lift off during fast corners. That kind of stuff. But clearly when you need to go fast, you’re going to be braking under all kinds of conditions: straight, trail braking, left foot braking, etc. You use brakes and throttle position to balance the car, so the general rules still apply but there’s wide grey areas either side that actual physics takes care of, and that area is where really good driving takes place. But Forza doesn’t behave like that, so if you do any of this stuff like you would in a real car, the physics will punish you, even if it’s entirely appropriate for how the track is driven in real life. And that’s just because Forza overreacts to everything. In terms of racing physics, it’s a blunt instrument.
It’s fun once you get used to it, but you have to drive the majority of cars in a very specific way that you couldn’t get away with in real life or actual sim games. And I say the majority because even though there’s a lot of cars, the blanket rule about the way cars with different engine-drivetrain layouts behave is applied to a lot of them, with very specific exceptions. If my car behaved (or sounded) the way the stock car behaves in Forza, I never would have bought it: that’s because the actual way it’s driven just feels like a carbon copy of a bunch of other cars, even though it’s not true to its actual behaviour on the track.
You hit it right on the head. This is precisely the feeling I got when I first started playing Forza after driving a handful of fast cars IRL - both my own and friends - AWD and RWD, some of them tuned to nearly 800hp. Something always felt amiss in Forza 7, particularly in the brakes, suspension, and aero physics department. I thought to myself - why does the experience feel assisted in some ways? Even though all assists were off and steering was “sim”.
Say, for example, when I play PCARS2, I just feel like there are so many parameters, so many nuances and “mini calculations” happening under the hood that it makes the driving feel real, and very, very distinct when going from car to car.
