Trouble Getting E23 to Turn Sharply Enough

First, ever since getting FM6 last fall, I felt somehow frustrated but couldn’t quite put my finger on the problem. I was pretty swift in FM5; not top-100 fast but top-1% and ahead of most of my friend list, and was able to race with Drivatars on unbeatable without driver aids, even in the Lotus E21 with which a lot of my friends seemed to run to traction control. Then came FM6 and my pace wasn’t there…, and I couldn’t quite put my finger on why that is. Well, I played for a bit and then got lost in Fallout for quite a while but some days back I decided to resume FM6.

Months back I felt like I was having trouble getting the E23 around turn one at Spa, but later dismissed it as me misjudging how close I was to the outside on approach, as I play in cockpit view. Upon studying replays, I found that when I thought I was at about the left edge of the track on approach to turn one, I actually had probably a car’s width or more. Okay, so maybe not turning wide enough from the entry was my problem.

Then last night I tried getting through the last turn at Long Beach. It simply did not happen even at 27 MPH even if I approached so wide that I threw up sparks from tapping the outside wall first. With the widest approach I could make and steering in at full steer, I couldn’t make the turn without my nose hitting the far wall. Sometimes I was able to scrape the far end and go, while other times I had to reverse from the wall and then resume my lap.

I threw together a video of one turn attempt, captured from three camera views:

I’m not sure why I’m having so much trouble getting the thing to make tight turns. I know on one lap I saw my speed as low as 27 and it still wasn’t enough. In FM5 I had no trouble at all turning here in anything, including the E21 and IndyCars, and at higher speeds. I thought maybe it might need some adjustments on the front wheels but figured it should still make the turn with default settings.

Does anybody have any idea why I’m having so much trouble making a tight turn? (I’d appreciate respectful answers, please. As a Forza veteran, I hate to even have to bring this up. It’s pretty embarrassing, to be perfectly honest.)

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I haven’t tried that particular car/track combo myself, but while reading your post I recalled that F1 cars bring a special steering rack to the Monaco Grand Prix, because their normal steering doesn’t have enough travel to negotiate the Fairmont Hotel hairpin. The last corner at Long Beach is just about as tight, so maybe that’s just the way things are.

Anyway, the solution is obviously to put your foot in it and slide around the corner like a rally driver! :smiley: :wink:

The AI seems to have no trouble, and I haven’t heard other players griping about it so I got the impression I’m the only one struggling with this. I just got done making some runs at this turn in test drive and even when I reduce my speed down into the teens I still eat the wall. I tried making adjustments to camber and toe and they seemed to do nothing to remedy my woes.

:frowning:

Suggest the tuner thread.

Rebound affects turn in and exit unless coasting and car is in neutral state

Arbs front to left and rear to the right until you feel good about over steer. 0/40 is max oversteer and 40/0 is max understeer.

You can affect it with springs as well

Castor. On some cars helps as well and others I don’t see any effect. Long each in my theory would be a lower caster track as most of the turns are 90s or more. (But GRD has a nice write up about it in one of the posts in the tuning section)

Hope this helps. Clear as mud unless you get some experience at it and I find the open wheelers to act a bit different then sports cars at times.

http://forums.forza.net/turn10_postst47239_-HCR--Open-Source-X-Class-Lotus-E23-and-IndyCar---Both-for-Leaderboards-and-Ghost-League.aspx

Here you go. Motorhead’s OS thread. I was sure I’d seen one. May look to see Bryce’s in fm5 as well.

I can try it. I had downloaded tunes but they kept being declared illegal for the series (ultimate motorsport in career) so I reckoned they all upgraded and the career series must disallow that. It just seems like the car should be able to make the turn naturally, even if tuning can improve on that. Excellent cornering is F1’s thing.

UPDATE:
I tried the setup in that thread and I’m still not able to turn tight enough. It seems to be essentially identical to what I was getting before.

Here’s an off-the-wall thought; have you tried adjusting your controller deadzone settings? In theory you should be able to reach full steering lock regardless of deadzone setting, but if you are using 0/100 and your controller were worn or dirty or something near the limits of its travel, it might not register full input near its limits. Adding a little bit of deadzone should theoretically make the steering reach full lock earlier.

One thing I found that works is to “drift” lightly around those turns. You might tuned out oversteer too much. Tune it to slightly oversteer, you can even turn tcs off, and let it slide a bit around the turn.

I think your dead zones are the likely culprit. Also, over time racing I’ll start to move the stick diagonally instead of directly side to side if I’m not paying attention. That will lead to steering not reaching full lock. Those are most likely the issues if the tunes didn’t help. You need an oversteery car to get through that last turn at Long Beach in the E23.

Ive been having a lot of trouble with similar issues… Car having too much understeer going into corners and then too much oversteer coming out.

The problem for me is the steering assist. There is absolutely no way to turn it completely off… Basicaly when I turn into a corner my thumb is full lock left or right but in cockpit view I can see the driver barely turning the steering wheel at all. I then realize im not going to make the corner… so I ease off the gas and ease on the brakes only to have the driver steer more without me changing my steering angle. This causes the car to oversteer drastically and spin out, slam into the inside wall, or worse, another car…no amount of tuning can fix this either. All my cars have too much understeer and too much oversteer at the same time.

The game is completely unplayable to me and unless I have full controll of my steering angle then there is no way to properly judge a corner. The steering angle is determined by your speed,throttle input, and what gear you are in. Ive found dropping the car into 1st gear on tight corners helps steer more even if im full throttle banging of the rev limiter. If you’re not in 1st gear for tight corners then try that. Otherwise I have no idea how to remedy this. Might be easier with a wheel setup instead of controller but I cant confirm.

For slow speed turning use +ve toe.

If you look at Bryce / umadbroyolo thread from FM5 they were never shy of using positive toe at both ends.

If you do you may need to back off on the other items as the toe affects turning at all speeds.

So if you want to increase turning at slow speeds but keep it the same at higher speeds then do something like increase toe and increase front ARB or increase toe and decrease rear ARB.

Or just increase +ve toe and maybe it will help across the board.

Try +0.2/+0.1 to start and increase a little from there.

Just to add to this you should also have very low decel diff, like single digits.

Please try these toe settings and even try +0.6/+0.4. I think the FM5 thread had a tune with those settings for a certain track.

EDIT: another thing to try is check the leaderboards for Long Beach in X class and see if any of the top 10 have donwloadable tunes. If so watch that replay and use the same tune. You will be able to tell if its you or the tune then. Sometimes the answer is not what you want to hear but knowing may be half the battle.

I thought I was the only one who noticed this. Regardless of what car I often have trouble with that turn and have to force with oversteer via throttle.

Should probably be in the “tuners garage”

You simply have to downshift to 1 and be at a good angle before you approach it. When you get to that corner you should be at your turning arc or half way through!

I tested this last night. Toe, diff, 1st gear plus correct speed is the answer.

Remember sometimes in an F1 car you have to slow down in order to go fast. Take a look at the shifting pattern of the F1 drivers on F1.com. For example on the first turn on Spa, most F1 drivers shift down to 1, as this is the optimal gear for that corner. Most of the time 2nd gear is OK for most corners, but some corners require 1st gear. With the exception of adjusting downforce, an F1 car is the perfect jet and really doesn’t need tunes - that’s why it’s an F1 car!!!

I spent many hours hotlapping in X class in FM5 and I disagree.

Tunes are critical.

I am not saying driving is not critical, it is but you would be amazed at the performance changes I got from using the open source tunes in UMADBROYOLO’s thread for FM5.

Those tunes did not just change downforce.

EDIT: here is the thread http://forums.forza.net/turn10_postst5658_Lotus-E21-Leaderboard-OpenSource-Tunes-For-All-Tracks-by--BryceMW-and-SPxUMADBROYOLO.aspx

This is a problem with many cars - remember the F430 S handling when the demo came out?

The slightest tap on the brake will send your car sliding into the sidewall and the wheels refuse to turn more, even though you aren’t even applying all that much lock to begin with.

Turn rumble off and kill vibration down to 60 or 65%. That should help. Let me know if it improves things. The steering in this game needs to be remodeled. It is not representative of actual driving.

When I first started hotlapping the various snake tracks in FM2 I had the same problem, there was that one double hairpin that I couldnt get through for the longest time and I was convinced that it was because the car just wouldnt turn enough.

Skip part of the story.

I watched some replays of Long Beach Full X Class to see how fast top guys were going thru that corner paying attention to your own 27 mph number. ( lowest speed, not an average )

#1 30mph
#50 27mph
#101. 25 mph
#151. 25mph
#200. 28mph
#250. 28mph

I even watched A Class, same positions: 25,27,20,23,20,25mph

D class #43 went thru at 24 mph ( I picked that one because it’s a light weight grip based Elan and not an accel beast )

Hairpins like that are very difficult to get thru, there is no downforce and you are totaly relying on the friction of a couple of tires to get you thru, even an F1 car is barely going any faster than anyone else, and in some cases the same.

Back to my original point, what I thought was a problem with the game was really me understeering because I was going to fast, when I slowed down some and turned in a little sooner and at juuuuust the right place, my times got much better.

Rather than having to slow down to 27, you were really going as fast as you could possibly hope to get thru that corner. Try slowing down to 24-25 and begin your turn-in a little sooner.