Spot on! T10 please read the above post and consider hiring a real life race marshal for consulting on FM7. At least for leagues and any esl type events.
I don’t mind tyre walls, or sticky grass/tarmac or a combination of all three. Penalties appear to be the consensus, as well as a realistic damage effect to those going off track. Maybe for those going off track the Police should appear and deploy stingers! But, yes, the tyre walls do affect the appearance of the tracks.
I agree the walls were not the solution. Sticky grass isn’t any better though, you get pushed off by a bad driver and they get away while you are either in a tire wall or stuck on the grass.
Many folks have already eluded to what I think is the only possible solution: implement a penalty system!
I don’t think it should be so harsh that 1 corner cut or track extension results in a penalty, we all miss a braking point or turn in a bit early on occasion. We need something that penalises the repeated dirty drivers. It will not only make the racing feel more realistic and fun but it will deter the idiots that already plague our lobbies from being a further menace or taking an unfair advantage.
I have had races on Sebring where I lap faster than someone on every damn lap only to lose because he cuts that last section of corners before the final long straight every time. I’ve had to start defending way to aggresively than what should be required in a racing game just to hold my fairly earned position.
1 Like
I disagree, one corner cut or one instance of leaving the track should attract a penalty. In motor sport they’re now identifying sections of the track where exceeding the limits is not tolerated. A relatively easy solution is that T10 identify these key areas on each and every track and anyone using them receive a DSQ (disqualified) and thus finish behind the DNF with no time posted and no CR etc. This is just an extension to the current dirty lap system that’s always been in place. There’s no reason we couldn’t have “clean lap”, “dirty lap” and “illegal lap”. When I say easy I mean it’ll be easy to implement in future titles, not so easy to backward engineer into FM6.
3 Likes
You need to factor in times where someone is forced off the trackto avoid an accident. You are allowed to cut corners and track extend on some circuits to avoid a collision, some tracks have the ability to cut or extend built in specifically for this purpose.
The key objective is driver safety so tracks also have run off or gaps through chicanes in case a driver doesn’t brake in time. The only hard rule is that you cannot gain from the incident.
You cant put a blanket DQ on someone for going off circuit. Imagine it is you copping the DQ just because you braked a little late. Or even worse, copping a DQ because you got punted into a “track extension” zone (first corner on Watkins Glen comes to mind).
1 Like
Tracks don’t have “extensions”. A track is a track and clearly defined. What you’re referring are run off areas These run off areas aren’t the track, they’re trackside.
Back to the problem being discussed. Namely, the predisposition of some players to deliberately drive off track to improve they’re position or lap time. If this was no longer possible it would be safe to assume that many would stop doing it or move on to another game they’re perhaps better at. As for the occasions where an innocent driver was punted of track at one of these “let’s call them” red zones, sure it’s a little annoying but in most cases the punter would also have his/her race somewhat compromised. If during a race I made an error that resulted in a DSQ then so be it. Staying on track is a fairly fundamental element of motor sport and in any event its only the result of one single race. No where near as frustrating as watching someone cheat race after race.
This is a game and as such no solution is perfect but on balance any measure to ensure cheating doesn’t pay has to be a step in the right direction.
It’s worth remembering that each track only has a handful of areas where corner cutting or running wide actually helps. It’s only these particular areas that require attention. The remainder of the track could be left as is.
1 Like
I dont think they’d ever add dq’s to forza. As for being “forced” to cut or knocked off track, they need to figure out what cuts and what extentions should be penalized. They have to do their research and to be honest this wouldnt take too long at all to figure out.
They have mostly real world tracks, im sure it wouldnt be hard to find out where most official track limits are because they are usually the same in any real race on a track. Like i said in an earlier post it has to be a simple system or they’re probably not going to do it.
They should just turn the whole game into a ghosted hot lap competition so no one ever has to face any adversity! 
Seriously though, I have no problem with tire walls, loathe the idea of sticky grass, and somewhat agree with the penalty system. Only problem there, is how does a computer tell when someone is purposely ramming and cutting, vs. accidental contact and extending to avoid incidents, or being caught up by someone doing it themselves who could care less where they finish? They obviously just want to troll lobbies, so that just gives them more ammo. Just my thoughts on it…
No automatic system would be right 100% of the time, but it doesn’t need to be. If the game punished habitual offenders or rewarded consistently clean racers then the occasional false-positive wouldn’t matter. I’d certainly accept the odd unfair warning if it meant being able to race in lobbies that weren’t totally dreadful 99% of the time.
3 Likes
Back in the days of FM2 I recall time penalties. Unfortunately, they only affected Leaderboard times, not race results. They became replaced with dirty laps. We need at least time penalties brought back, but not for Leaderboards but rather affecting race results. They’d need to be implemented intelligently, though. There’s places where you could run really quickly, like through a chicane, and gain more time than you’d lose from a penalty if it didn’t slap you with a large enough time penalty, but we couldn’t apply the same rate everywhere else just for running off as not everywhere gets equal gains by cutting and sometimes simply running off is its own penalty. Turn 10 would need to go through and figure that if you leave the track here and reenter here you gain a lot so you need a big time penalty, but going off over there gains you nothing but actually slows you down so it is penalty enough on its own.
Better still would be penalties for unsporting conduct and wrecking players but that’ll be hard to implement without causing its own problems, but those penalties could include immediate disqualification from the race. Better still would be temporary online bans (in multiplayer) if the game witnesses repeated unsporting offenses; maybe for a day or two or something like that. Again, though, that’ll be difficult to do without potentially being unfair.
What’s sad and frustrating, unfortunately, is that we can sit here and pretty much tell Turn 10 exactly how to dramatically improve the game and yet never see it happen. I’m not talking about all the wish list stuff of more content or complicated new features but just basic fundamental tweaks that could make gameplay substantially better for all players. Here we can tell Turn 10 to scrap barriers and sticky grass in favor of penalties, which would be more realistic and do better to deal with cheaters, and we know it will never, ever happen… for no good reason.
1 Like
I absolutely love them, They reduced corner cutting. There is a few that are just ridiculous. Other than those few. I have no issues.
The off track surface should be brutally slippery, not as an artificial penalty but because that’s just the way it actually is. Heck, you should notice less grip when you simply leave the racing line while still on the track; dirt, dust, and all the crud that isn’t getting swept off the track by the cars is not something you want to let your tires hit.
4 Likes
If anything the tire walls should be placed at the exits of these turns. People cut corners not just to shave a few dozen feet off a track, but to get better drive/ acceleration towards the next straight. If you remove the reward for corner cutting people won’t cut the corners.
Placing them at the entry of a corner seems to just make a pinch point for all the cars to squeeze through.
Some examples:
Swiss cheese Yas Marina, we’ve all seen corner cutting there and did it, through outbraking ourselves at the end of the previous straight or whatever.
This wall, not made of tyres this time, wasn’t there in previous Forzas, and it was an absolute straight line to some players.
This one’s amazing to me because, the place where the wall is suggests that players would have taken the pit entrance flatout to then straight line through the gravel and rejoin to avoid braking for the last corner. How you can even consider doing such a thing is amazeballs to me.
Couple more:
The tire walls destroy your line of sight especially at COTA and Silverstone. I’ll take the sticky grass.
It was odd watching the MotoGP at Silverstone this week as seeing no tire walls in the chicane. It was beautiful.
2 Likes
They don’t affect my line of sight too much, I would add more walls like this tbh.
In Assetto Corsa, if you go off the track limits in any way that might give an advantage, you are forced to stop accelerating for 10 seconds. If you apply any throttle within those 10 seconds, even if the timer is at 1, it jumps back up to 10. If the player ignores the timer for long enough he is black flagged and removed from the race.
In Forza, this system could be incorporated by also putting the player into ghost mode for the duration of the timer, and instead of getting black flagged he would be forced to make a pit stop, or just DQ’d from the race similar to how you’re DQ’d in the GT endurance lobby if you don’t make a quickstop.
I think this is one of the best systems used so far in any racing game and it’s very intuitive.
Yeah I quite like the system employed by Assetto Corsa and agree with you that it would be a good way of doing it in Forza.
I had a race against the AI and made a mistake going off the track. Had to wait on that timer it got to 1 and I went on the power just before it went to 0. It must have been a millisecond away from 0 and it reset to 10. I was kicking myself.
I am fine with the tire walls placement, its the physics of the tire walls that drive me crazy. You can hit them and it stop just fine one time, then the next you are sailing across the track like you are a pinball. This usually causes and even bigger crash involving multiple cars. Speaking if the physics in the game i hope the car to car contact gets adjusted for FM7. It is just as random as the tire walls. I have seen two guys rubbing and racing hard then have it all go wrong because of a rub down a straight away. Looks like they literally turn into one another. If you look up the replay and watch the telemetry neither turns into the other. An adjustment in these areas would help quite a bit i think.
Ok i did think of one gripe. Lime Rock. That turn in is brutal and following my ghost in rivals showed that my car is traveling a little through those tire walls. I think they were fine where they were at before.
Joe