The lack of progression, and what I think could improve it

I noticed in Forza Horizon 1 that while progression felt better, it also felt short and that I had nothing left to do after I’d finished it. With Forza Horizon 5, there is no sense of progression. I finished the main route in about 2-3 days, and during that whole time I just had everything thrown at me. I never earned anything. I was called a superstar from the first few minutes. So, what do I think could be done to improve this?

First, remove wheelspins. Controversial, I know. But the game activities would pay better to make up for the credits previously earned in wheelspins. They’re too random and can give you cars at the beginning that really should be saved for endgame.

Let’s take the core system of FH5 as it is and improve upon it. You build up a Festival location and unlock things to do based on their theme. This is good. Unfortunately, everything can be unlocked far too quickly and it never feels earned. It can even be annoying, as the game will rip you out of activities to tell you to unlock something new. So first off, remove that annoyance of course. Instead, just have a character call you and say “Hey Player, there’s some new activities at the Wilds Outpost.” And why that one specifically? Because you’d just finished up some dirt racing. Progress in each category is based on your activities in them, similar to FH4. As you finish more, the Outpost will improve, similar to FH3.

So, what will you do at these locations? Championships (or specific PR stunt challenges for the PR stunt Outpost). Ideally, it would take from FM3 in how they’re presented. You get 3 suggested to you, or you can pick one from an event list. The only thing I would change is that while I believe FM3 opens them all up from the beginning, later championships would be locked behind an Outpost level here. You could progress from simple championships like open D Class racing, FWD D Class, etc. up to higher classes and more specific challenges. Ford vs. Ferrari, or factory spec racing, whatever ideas the devs have. While they will be suggested based on a few things such as your current car, or cars you haven’t yet used but would be eligible, like in FM3, they would also be placed in a larger Event List where you can play any that you’ve unlocked and use those to progress that Outpost.

So what about the PR stunt Outpost? I think they already have a good base in the challenges that currently exist in the Playlists. More of that, suggested and listed similarly to the racing championships.

Each championship you complete for the first time would offer a large prize of credits. The hardest could even offer car prizes that are locked behind completion of them, to make the cars truly special. This could be the primary source of Forza Edition cars.

Levels. They’re useless without wheelspins, aren’t they? Well, no. You’ll still be rewarded. At the rate you level up in FH5, I’d say maybe every 5-10 levels you are presented with a choice between a few cars. You can pick one and it’ll be added to your garage. Of course, once you hit a certain level this stops mattering. I would suggest up to the first prestige level, where you get your final reward car. A really nice expensive one. After that, perhaps a small but permanent CR reward boost based on prestige level, and a money prize for each 5-10 levels. The amounts are something that would take too much consideration for this post. But it would ensure that levels continue to be important for as long as you play, and the longer you play, the more rewarded you are. This reduces the overall grind while ensuring that you don’t gain too much too fast at the beginning.

None of this would lock the races away behind progression… mostly. You can play online from the beginning, you can do exhibition races as much as you wish. But there’s still stuff to work toward whenever you want it. The only exception I would add is the finale races. The Colossus and the rest would be locked behind finishing the Outpost improvements, with the Goliath being the final reward for finishing all of them.

And finally, stop locking cars behind the Playlist. Time-gated rewards aren’t very fun, they prey on FOMO to keep people playing. Instead, give the game plenty to do and people will play because they truly want to. The ideas here are designed to solve that too. There can absolutely still be a Playlist with good rewards. But no more exclusives. There’s a reason people call the Playlist a chore.

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“I was called a superstar from the first few minutes” Were we not also called a Superstar Driver in FH4? I can’t remember but I’m sure we were. Technically, we’ve been a superstar driver since the first Horizon. I agree, it’s a bit premature.

Regarding the rest, I don’t disagree with most of what you have said. Unfortunately, Playground are following the path of making everything easier with each passing game, although they did make the AI harder to beat in this game but FH4 was the outlier here as the AI are more akin to FH3 levels. There is a short-term logic to what they have done: throw everything at the players in the early days so they become hooked on the game; long-term it backfires as the game becomes stale for a lot of players.

The only thing I disagree with is locking the Goliath…whilst on one hand I agree that unlocking the Goliath should feel like an actual reward, it would also put a lot of people off who look forward to driving the Goliath: Imagine someone who only has time to play a few hours a week and may end up taking months to unlock it.

They had the right idea with the Festivals and building them up etc but, like a lot of things, they didn’t do a very good job with it. The problem is they can’t win: a lot of us wanted more progression, more rewards…however, they also have to cater for the players who want to unlock everything quickly to get it out of the way so they can focus on custom races etc as well as those who only play a few hours a week and don’t want to wait for 6 months or more to unlock certain races etc.

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FH4 to FH5 is the first time we’ve had direct continuity with the player. In FH4 the player starts out as someone that some talent scout has taken interest in but it really doesn’t last long and ultimately has no relevance to the rest of the “story”. The “Superstar” title was added later in an update, and required finishing the star card. FH5 assumes the player has done that in FH4. In FH3 the player was the boss of the festival, but not necessarily a former champion? Not that the concept of a Horizon Champion even seems to exist anymore.

Point is, this is the first time we’re fully assumed to be the same person as a previous game. There’s really no reason a new Horizon can’t go back to starting from the bottom and abandoning that unnecessary continuity. I’m already in the hall of fame (since about 3 days after release), what could possibly be next anyway?

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It’s still Horizon. I don’t think it’d take that long to get to that point. Thinking back to FM3, finishing the main career mode would leave you with like 10% of all the championships completed. It didn’t take that long to finish, and there was still plenty to do after if you wanted. Ideally it would be fairly similar if not a bit quicker for Horizon.

i don’t want imagine of the bugs we have when they change the core game progression…

My understanding is that the next game will be using the new Forza Engine (I think I read this game is still using the old one) so they will likely have to recode a lot of the game rather than just re-using a lot of FH4 code so they would have the opportunity to improve things

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Nah, there’s no way they’ll change it now. This is just what I think should’ve been done, or could be done in the next game.

Yeah the Superstar :smiley: Think there was some blabla britain now youre in mexico blabla at start and between.
For players new to the game it makes no sense at all…

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I agree that levels should be more meaningful. Personally, I think they should give a flat bonus to event rewards up until you Prestige. Every Prestige should reset the flat bonus to zero, but give an increasing multiplier.

Perhaps in the next game there can be two game modes:
Sandbox (or endless): plays similarly to the current game but without the story. The focus is placed on you being free to buy the cars that you want, explore the map and complete races.

Story: introduces a sense of progression, player starts with a basic car and works their way up through the ranks. Emphasis is placed on immersion, with functionality like map markers being completely optional (you have to find your own way to each event from the directions given to you from the satnav or NPCs).

Events appear physically as start/finish lines which are still under construction or a car meet on the side of the road. Once you arrive, you are sent into short cutscene (wherein the game can load the race in the background).

Major story events, like rivals races can have story-based cutscenes where you and your rival trash talk before getting into their cars and minor events where the range of NPCs (or players for multiplayer) walk around admiring each others cars (like you would at a typical car meet).

This could make the game much more organic and enjoyable to play while not alienating the players who just want a racing sandbox. The more organic car meets and ability to make map markers optional improves the ability to explore the game (rather than having the game hand-hold you from point to point) and reduces the open-world fatigue.

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Honestly I have most of the cars and have done everything short of the jumps I have raced pretty much every race but like there is a stark lack of things to do. The “sandbox” is barely one because their are a top few meta cars so online racing is just dominated by that.

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yeah, I reckon I finished the ‘storyline’ of FH5 in about 20 hours. Don’t remember how long it took in FH3 but it was much longer to upgrade all the Festival sites up to level 5. FH3 made it so you had to complete almost every event unlocked from each festival site upgrade to earn enough fans to upgrade the next.

FH5 makes it so you only get to do maybe 3 or 4 events before it throws at your face the next sticker thingy to unlock something new. FH3 also exponentially increased the fans needed for each upgrade, making each new upgrade progressively harder than the last.

There was a story line?

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FH4 had seasons, well, winter - to me it made big difference and this novelty saved the “end game” for me. FH5 just feels empty and things like Stunt Stadium only make it worse

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I agree.
Loading the game and then wondering what I’m supposed to do because the challenges are no fun anymore.
Maybe I’m getting too old for this stuff.
Who knows.

This game cannot have progression anymore because most of us were able to acquire cars easily before progression was nerfed. If you played at launch, there’s not much you can look forward to now. This is Forza Horizon now: short campaign to grab the juicy reviews from the journalists and endless weekly/monthly loop with the Playlists.

GT7 was forced to pad progression out with the ultra expensive Legends cars in order to mitigate this problem, but the presence of MTXs and the limited number of races to grind created a different problem. I’m enjoying the game, it’s a nice change of pace from Forza, but unfortunately it too has adhered to this “new normal” of artificial scarcity.

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