I’ve been playing Forza since the very first on the original Xbox. I have purchased the Collector/VIP/Ultimate Additions every time they have been available and I still have my Forza Motorsport Keychain that came with FM3 Collector Edition. I’ve been doing this a while.
Playing the single-player “campaign” never has, nor ever will do anything for me. Racing online with other, random people is where it’s at for me.
I used to get really mad like most of you and rant on the forums about crappy drivers, crashing “teams” and just general poor behavior online. Words like “broken”, “ruined” etc, would be thrown around the forums on a daily basis and many people, blame Turn10. That said…
Over the last 10 years of playing Forza in it’s various forms, I am much more “calm” about the whole thing and I would like to share what I have found to work for me and my temperament. The point of this is not to tell anyone how to race or enjoy the game the way they want to, but rather to give some options that may make sense to some. Here goes;
When starting in a race from either the middle of the back or further back, hold back just a bit on your launch. Often there are people that are “idle” or doing something else rather than racing and their car is a roadblock that comes out of nowhere when the person in front of you swerves to miss! Be ready!
At the start of the race, leave a car-length at a minimum between you and the car(s) ahead of you. 9 times out of 10 there is carnage in the first bit of the race. Try to focus your attention as far ahead as you can to spot trouble the second it starts and begin planning your path through it.
Use your rear-view mirror!! I can’t stress this one enough. If someone behind your is driving very aggressively or like a n00b, let them by! They will inevitably hit someone else and you can cruise by later.
If your find yourself caught up in a tangled mess of cars sliding down the road, try and feather the brake when your car is pointed straight down the road again, locking up all four wheels or pegging the throttle when you’re in a spin is a bad idea.
If you find yourself knocked off the track, or (it happens) make a mistake and run off, be mindful of other cars BEFORE re-entering the racetrack! Spa is a great example of this. For example, people can be cresting the blind hill at over 120mph and will not be able to stop or react if someone just pulls in front of them!
Crashers… we all know them, we all hate them. These are the guys that wait a lap and try to deliberately smash anyone that tries to go by. When coming up on one of these guys, check your rear-view and slow down a bit. Best approach is to make them think that you will be passing them on one side and then nail the gas and go around the other side once they have committed. If properly executed, you’ll have the advantage every time.
Turn 1 carnage is one of the most frustrating aspects of online racing. I will concede to that. Best advice I can give is just assume it’s going to happen and keep your attention focused as far ahead of you as possible. Be ready and when it happens, look for an escape route or path through. Pay close attention to cars when they start spinning and often you can predict where they will end up.
If you are the cause of a crash and you have a microphone, apologize! I’m a pretty fast driver but I’m not perfect and I have caused my own share of crashes. Still, you would be surprised how quickly the situation will de-escalate if you just say “Sorry bro, that was my bad”. If you are feeling really terrible or don’t have a mic, give them their position back. Just do something to make an effort to bring the person’s blood pressure below boiling point.
Finally, REVENGE. Everyone’s favorite subject I know, but it’s a reality so I feel I should mention it. If you just can’t let it go, or the same guy has been taking people out left and right or you, follow this one rule! Do NOT use the 150mph ram in the corner technique under any circumstances! I’m not saying that the offender does or doesn’t “deserve” it, I’m saying that you will inevitably crash yourself and you may also take out innocent people that had nothing to do with your anger. Simply get behind the offender, and a gentle nudge of their rear, quarter panel along with a slight application of your brakes does the job just fine. Just be mindful of other racers remember that you may inadvertently escalate the anger to other people!
Essentially, just keep a cool head and you’ll be surprised at how your podium showings will improve. Sometimes winning isn’t about having the fastest car or the best tune… Its about consistency and not getting taken out.
Scott.
BTW,
If anyone has any other tips for avoiding carnage… PLEASE SHARE!!!
The problem is there is no incentive as part of the game mechanics to support the behavior. You want to know why Iracing is so popular among sim racers ? It’s not the car physics or the track selection, it’s all the other aspect that encourage good behavior. You are penalized so hard to drive like a lunatic that you just don’t.
What Forza needs is a similar mode for more sim like player. A system where a drive safety rating is calculated and allows you to graduate and access faster car based on that rating. Otherwise, it will be a demolition derby.
I’m not disagreeing with you which is the point of this thread. I’m merely saying, “Go in with the “expectation” that there’s going to be carnage and adapt”.
Anyone who has played video games online for any length of time knows regardless of game mechanics in place to minimize abuse/cheating/griefing/trolling, people will find a way around it.
Turn10 has been making Forza now for 10 years and they have made it pretty clear that they don’t think that poor behavior in lobbies can be fixed with another game mechanic that may/may not introduce other problems. Regardless of right or wrong, that is how it is.
Accept the reality for what it is and change the only thing you DO have control over. How YOU play the game.
I accepted the reality. I don’t go into random lobby at all. Actually, I never race online anymore. I go hot laps and control my experience. If I really want an experience a racing experience, I go on PC. Heck even on Assetto Corsa, a game that has zero mechanic to prevent demolition derby, as more polite and safe drivers.
Forza 6 will be the first Forza Motorsport game I have not purchased. Rented to only play some of the single player.
As a person blessed enough to finish school and have a professional job, disposable income is something I do have. But I only purchase games now that have a fantastic multiplayer element to them. The crashing and ramming in Forza is something I have grown tired of and after all these years Turn 10 really has not tried to solve or look for a solution.
I’m done. Shame since the game really has so much potential.
I’m not sure how these statements are intended to contribute to the discussion at hand but “ok”.
There are plenty of threads of people convinced that they are better at making racing games than Turn10 and complex behavioral modeling algorithms will solve all our problems. I’ve heard this non-stop for 8 years on Forza forums.
The entire purpose of this thread is to provide options for those willing to adapt to the reality of FM6 online play (as it is) and the society in which we live. If you want to complain and/or quit, more power to you. We are here for discussing solutions or “workarounds” to change the only thing we DO have control over and that is ourselves.
I am not better at making racing games than Turn10. I am solely report my experience with other games that have different game mechanic and how it has influence the online experience. Workaround will not work as you would need the whole community to agree as a whole. Since this community is only reflecting a fraction of what the Forza population is, you will not even make a dent.
So if you want clean races, races with other racers that want to race clean. Don’t go into random lobby and don’t expect random people to apply any of the recommendation you have put forward. This is a waste of times. The mob rules. I don’t remember any game besides the original MotoGP on the original xbox where people genuinely liked racing clean. Even with that in mind, it only take a few weeks for random player to start racing backward and crash into people because they thought it was more fun than actual racing. Next thing you know, someone found a glitch to save tons of time and the game went down the toilet. It was totally ruin. Legitimate racer (like me), just quit. At that time I was #3 in the world.
You have to live within reality. I get through this type of argument all the time at the office. I am system analyst and architect. We always have these debate : training vs system restriction. There is always someone who comes up and say : " well it’s a resource training issue, if we trained them well, wouldn’t happen". My response to them is always the following " You can’t put a sign that says “Don’t enter through this door” and than leave the door wide open. People are going to ignore and just go right through. It’s the fault of the system of not assisting the end user experience enough. You cannot blame the end user if the system allows them to do .
I do believe Turn10 is a firm believer of freedom and choices. This is why they never implement any type of system that would reward good behavior. This sound great but in reality, it doesn’t always work as if something is allow to be done, people will do it. Why taking the time to race properly when you can just plow you way through. It’s way easier . The path of lease resistance will always win. Since playing with the controller makes it every easy to recover from all of these bump, Turn10 is directly enabling the behavior.
The manager in me would ask his System Architect, “Did you consider any potential adverse effect from closing the door?” or “Is there a legitimate, business need for that door to be open?” and finally, “If that door is to NEVER be used, why is there a door there in the first place?”.
You’re making a lot of very strong assumptions regarding Turn10’s motivations for their action/inaction regarding poor online behavior. Unless you have an insight into the actual operations at Turn10 or inside information from the Project Managers, Development Team Leads, or Game Play Architects it’s completely baseless.
While I don’t have any insights on internal Turn10 operations either, I will not speculate on their motivations but I think its foolish to think that this has not been discussed at GREAT length. That said, as you may have guessed by now, I also work in technology as a Senior Engineer and experience has taught me that introducing controls is never as straightforward as it seems and you can quickly introduce unintended consequences.
I bet right now you’re thinking… “So your solution is to do NOTHING???” and the answer is “of course not!”. My policy is that I want to hear well thought out solutions where all possibilities have been considered and dealt with intelligently. People that come into my office to complain without any detailed solutions to the problem are quickly shown the door.
You do know at the end of the day , it always comes down to money and time to deliver. This is the only assumption I can make because it is true for anyone working the same field we do. Of course we always do operation risk assessment of all changes/request coming our way. This is what we do.
So you are correct, I am sure they have that debate in the office about which direction they should go with Forza. From all the interview I watch, Dan always seems proud how accessible was the game for everyone. When you make a game accessible to everyone, you will have an high population of casual gamer who may not have the same level of education when it comes to racing sense. I do believe that in any system, it’s up to developer to give enough freedom to the end user but restrict them enough that they don’t do stupid thing. In a game like Forza, I think you need to reward good behavior. If you give someone an incentive to do something as part of the game mechanic, most will try to go in that direction. Those who choose not too are not penalized. In some type of safety rating system. You can promote safe drivers to a different license class and use matchmaking algorithm to match safe drivers together to enhance further the experience.
Good post, well said. Hopefully it will encourage more people to stick with online because when you find yourself in a race with similarly skilled racers it is an exhilarating experience. Today in the Ford GT league I had several clean races so there is fun to be found.
I’d just add:
Know your own pace, by which I mean lap time. Lets say you get clear out front and are running at your fastest pace, if a car or cars in your mirrors start catching you quickly, recognise they are likely faster than you (I know it’s shocking but there really are some racers faster than you out there!). Take a defensive line by all means but don’t swerve and become a rolling road block, race fair and give enough space to pass. If you stay in the same lobby for a while you will get to know where you sit in the field, who is quicker and slower than you. Look at the results at the end of each race and the lap times to give you more clues. We can’t all be first in every race online (unfortunately single player leads to a lot of the have to be first mentality online) and you will get more satisfying races by knowing your pace. If someone is quicker than you and passes look at their lines, braking and turn in points and so on to learn from. Consistency is the key to good racing, I’m far from the fastest out there but I’ve won and finished well in plenty of races by consistent fair racing. As the racing saying goes to finish first, first you have to finish.
You forgot a crucial aspect of avoiding Tun 1 crashes (and minimizing the consequences of getting caught up in it). GO LOW! Take the inside line of the corner. Many times this will keep you out of the way of the idiots and scrubs divebombing the corner with no brakes. And if you do get hit, you won’t fly off the track with them.
Alternatively, if you cannot make it to the low line, take a fast, wide entry to the corner. You want to get to the apex as quick as possible to get out of the way of the aforementioned idiots. Your exit will be slow, but you will often avoid the carnage this way as well.
Also, as a general rule, if there is crashing going on in front of you, slow the hell down! You aren’t Cole Trickle and this isn’t Days of Thunder. Don’t just slam the pedal down and hope to make it through. Take it slow, try not to get run over and cautiously find a path.
Good thread and good advice. Those 24 player multiplayer races are MADNESS, I’ve seen some insane wrecks that look more like a stack of cars. People are a lot more aggressive coming over from FM5. lots of new drivers on the road =]
you’re spot on, though. If you cant get ahead of the pack off the start, then it’s wise to hang back, drive careful and controller, and wait for one or two wrecks that you can navigate through once the dust has settled. Then you can start making your move for the racers who didn’t get totally FKD in a crash. It’s all about careful driving.
IMO all the carnage adds an element to the game i quite enjoy. Would get dull otherwise. Tons of character on the track with 24 cars and you have to take that into account.
Definitely keeping an eye out for AFK cars off the jump is key, too.
24 players in the first lap is a clusterfrik, but also crazy fun. im hooked.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. This is a great read for everyone. The only thing that I think would be great would be ghosts for the first 30 seconds, or first two turns. That would help a lot and I dont think anyone would be against it.
The issue is that most people that like to crash into others in first turn are not the people that usually go into forum and read thread like this. Sorry if I sound jaded but Forza game attracts a wide range of gamers where PC sims attract more serious racers. It will never change.
I think people crashing/wrecking is a nessesary evil. Because it teaches you how to recover from these crashes and even helps you out controlling high hp/tq cars with not good enough tires. Like op been at it since fm1 and hated that myself but now when ppl try to spin you/crash, i find it i recover much faster then others specially new players.
