On the first screenshot the car has stock tyres, 900PI and super high grip. Second one has sport tyres, 916PI and seems to be worse in every way. Semi Slicks show the stats you would expect.
This happens on a bunch of cars like the Jaguar XJR, both F1’s, the Elise GT1, Nissan R390, Lambo Countach and others.
On all of them any Street or Sport tyre seems to actually be a downgrade with a PI penalty.
And at least to me any car like this is a good choice as you are saving a lot of PI by not upgrading tyres.
Probably an oversight by the devs, they shouldn’t have included those tyre upgrades.
I don’t think so. I think the stock tyres are using an incorrect grip value. That 1.58 lateral G’s is what many other S1 cars wish they could get when fully upgraded to the top of the class. 1.73 is nuts. Looking at this F1 GT the Street tyres should be Stock. Sport tyres should be Street. And the current Stock tyres should be the Sport option. It would be a much more balanced car in it’s class. This would also work on all the other car examples I gave.
On top of that why should the Countach not have any street or sport tyre upgrades? What’s so special about it’s tyres that they are effectively superior to tyres 50 years newer?
Maybe you are just expecting too much from a game.
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What’s the point of your responses? I come here with stuff to back up what I’m saying. You barely read or comprehend what I’m trying say (there’s even pictures) and dismiss it with what amounts to a “gut feeling”. I say more stuff to back up my claims and you come out with that gem?
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It’s bad programming I would say. I think a lot of the tuning is actually broken as my braking distances seem to be random, and change up, and down on their own.
Boom! The stock tires definitely have too much grip. It kind of explains why the popular tunes are RWD with drag tires. If the stock tires have all that grip, drag tires have insane grip.
It’s a miscalculation by the stats table. These stock tires do NOT produce more lateral g (grip) than Street or Sports.
The assumption why this affects a lot of Retro Supercars (Diablo, Countach, F50, F40, F355, XJ220) and Retro Homologation cars (Elise GT1, F1 GT, Nissan R390) lies in the special tire compounds these cars had in Motorsport 7.
Since the cars were ported over this issue is present in Horizon 4 as well.
To back this up I ran the F1 GT (being the example chosen by the OP) on Lookout Circuit. A track that relies heavily on grip.
I used my S900 F1 GT that runs stock tires as starting point. Then I slapped on the tires that are in the lateral g range shown in the stats table. Nothing else was changed on the build.
Results:
Tires PI shown lateral g lap time
Stock 900 1,29 1,62 46.063
Street 903 1,16 1,45 45.896
Sport 916 1,18 1,48 44.928
Drift 915 1,23 1,55 44.711
Rallye 919 1,34 1,68 44.428
As it can be seen Stock and Street are basically identical which is expected at a PI difference of only 3.
Another thing that is obvious and all experienced tuners build their cars by: Sport tires are hopelessly underpowered vs Drift and especially Rallye. With a PI difference of only 3 we are talking half a second.
On top of that Rallies have better power absorption (hence they are used for most powerbuilds), miles better offroad and are less affected by rain.
It’s dumb that the tires designed for tarmac racing (Sport) are inferior on tarmac to Drift and Rallye tires. PG completely failed with tire balance in this game.
Edit: I need to learn how to create the chart. Since the forum does not allow numerous spaces after another my list looks confusing.
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Awesome, I was going to run that test today but you did an awesome job.
Unfortunately this means most of the information the game gives you about the cars can be incorrect. That’s neat.
I swear these cars feel better than most on stock tyres though but maybe the numbers were kind of warping my perception.
Great stuff thanks Rayne!
Thanks for the kind words.
I guess what you are experiencing and what is misleading with these “Retro Supers” tires is their better power absorption.
Meaning they don’t break traction as quickly as Street tires do. Therefore, they feel better because they make the cars easier to drive.
The difference in lateral g isn’t big enough to be instantly noticed.
Only on very grip-reliant turns like the first triple apex righthander on Lookout Circuit I noticed the lower grip.
Between them and Street it’s a decision of taste and driving style.
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I noticed the tire issue months ago. It’s why most of my tunes use stock tires or drag tires. Depending on the car, those two tire types outperform everything else in all conditions. It’s a fundamental bug in the FH5 physics engine. At this point, I doubt it will ever be fixed since “fixing” it will break everyone’s tunes.
Tires are a mess in this game. Offroads have way too much grip on road, sports are completely useless, most stock options are better than streets unless you’re running a car from the 50s.
At this point the problems are so many and varied that the only real solution is to scrap the system and start over. That can’t happen until a new game. It’s unfortunate but there is really nothing that can be done.
Its how its supossed to be. A racing car should have the BEST stock grip tyres, better than any other “upgrade” you could throw. Its common sense. The way it was in FH4 was wrong lol, not the opposite around. If you see older cars and non-racing cars you will notice stock grip is way terrible.