So I tried 5 different cars all rear wheel drive, varying degrees of power and the only thing I can say that seems different is that simulation steering seems to be more managable than what I remember. The cars ive used seem to be more behaved when the tail is about to step out. I switched from sim to normal about a month and a half ago because I thought the cars were too twitchy and while normal isnt as precise as sim it alleviated most of it. That’s the only thing I can say that feels different to me.
Edit: Just tried the Caterham, it’s still extremely twitchy lol. So maybe they changed something else. They did say subtle, maybe it’s so subtle that nothing changed at all haha.
Well it’s safe to say it’s definatley an improvement, just spent the longest time in a single sitting, drifting on forza 6 without turning it off in frustration. In fact I had to drag myself away from it to cook dinner for the miss ’ s.
There is still a lot of room for improvement on the ffb side of it but at least for now the wheel will counter steer 95% of the time. There are still the few instances where the wheel doesn’t want to turn though.
Using normal steering, ffb is still too slow at responding using simulation steering. I prefer the linearity on normal steering anyway, sim feels too sensitive.
Yea, from what I’ve found with some cars sim is better and then with others normal is better. The ffb is definitely delayed and over time I’ve learned to just ignore it and preemptively react, which kind of defeats the purpose of having ffb. But whatever it is what it is it’s guess.
Well at least it’s something, it’s the first step they’ve actually taken to make it feel better. I still think they really need to look at how they are replicating forces at the steering wheel, as their current methods produce some odd effects at times.
Improvements no matter how small they may be - are welcome.
I have yet to try the game since the update…suffice to say I am looking forward to doing so, to see what - if any - changes I notice personally.
I think we can take solace in knowing that the change/update is a sign that they are listening…and attempting to make changes that cater to the wheel user-base.
Consider me encouraged.
There’s still a FFB issue when getting a certain amount of angle/transitioning though this improvement is brilliant and I can’t thank T10 enough for this.
Will be getting some more use a lot more often now in the wheel
Thanks for posting some positive feedback… I also heard where you said there is still some more room for additional improvements…
Like Buckwilder said too… Any improvement is welcome
Frankly There is way too much blathering on about how some people would change everything if they were the coders or could somehow share their infinitely superior understanding of physics. The whole matter of pessimism and complaining make me at least say 28 times more Blue than I would be without having to read all that negative complaining…
At the end of the day… It is a game… One that is developed primarily for controller users… That said, I for one am very entertained while playing, and I find my experience driving with the wheel to be quite good. I’ll even go so far as to say that I feel strongly that the feedback i get through the wheel (FFB=80, VFB=30) when I overdrive a car in the game, is actually very similar to the feel I get in the wheel of a real car when over-driving in the same way under same condition (car pushing, car loose, etc.).
***Did I just say that ---- Thread blows up on me from here I’m sure
I know a lot of wheel drivers who very often win against stiff controller competition.
I love Forza 6 and my wheel… I too can’t wait till I get home to test out the changes…
BTW — I now have another Xbox for when I’m traveling for work with an elite controller… played last night… Totally miss my wheel…
Say what you want about T-10 and the Physics or whatever you prefer to complain about… But – For Me – Driving with the wheel is immersive, exciting, and way more real than driving with a controller…
Can’t wait to see you all on the track… unless of course you are just going to try and make me feel Blue!
Like Skreamies said, you can see in a couple of high angle corner entries and high angle transitions I had to fight the wheel to turn it were it should have gone naturally
Well I’m done with Forza for now, after playing again today the subtle improvement they made is still not enough for me, the ffb model in forza just plain fails at giving me the feeling my wheel is connected to the car.
I understand that ffb is a very complex thing to simulate accurately but we should be able to get something reasonably simple in place that give a much more connected feeling with the cars without having to be 100% accurate. I have been doing a lot of research into self aligning torque/ffb simulation the past few weeks and it’s extremely complex. There are so many variables to take into account. It’s really hard to try and break down how t10 is simulating ffb, but at the end of the day, IMO it feels compleatly off. The ffb feels more like an on of switch with very little subtle infomation being delivered like under steer. At the early stages of understeer (based on in game telemetry of the front tyre friction over 100%) the ffb is at maximum and doest do anything at all until you are way past the limit of the front tyres, then the force just goes from hulk to nothing, just like that on/off. It does the same thing while drifting but it seems a bit more sensitive, as soon as you exceed front tyre slip angle you loose all force ant the ability to try feel what the car is doing, as you fight the ffb on off nature. Then theres the issue at high angle the wheel will not turn into the direction of the slide, it slowly does the oposite infact and tries to return to center.
Now I’m talking about the core of the ffb here with vibration off, the real heart of the ffb.
Forza has always boasted it’s physics, but simulating the forces at the wheel is a fundimental part of any driving/racing simulation and forza has just never seemed to take much care in this regard.
Just a basic plot with a calculation of lateral force, slip angle and pneumatic trail and a basic aligning torque curve would go a very long way in improving the 'FEEL ’ of the cars.
That was obviously a stab at me as everytime you spelled blue with a capital b, and 28 times is an oddly specific amount to multiply.
I was not trying to make anyone feel depressed or ‘bash’ T10, I applaud their work, it a good game and I am glad they have made the improvement. I never said I have a greater understanding of physics, nor did I claim to be a coder.
I have no problem if you’re happy with the current state of wheel support, I for one am dissapointed. I have been playing forza on a wheel for a long time and in all the years that have gone by the experience has not improved a great deal
I did not attack anyone with my post, nor did I intend it to offend anyone so Awesome, I was early trying to leave some constructive critisism. For now I’m hanging up my forza gloves and will move on somewhere else.
Tested out multiple cars and settings. The update definitely makes a difference in how controllable the cars are, especially with sim steering turned on. I can now use 900 DOR for normal cars with sim steering, and have zero problems correcting a slide. Open wheel cars I still stick with 540 DOR and normal steering. So the main difference I’ve noticed since the update, is the cars just don’t spin out anywhere near as easy as they used to. Which is a makes racing in career mode MUCH more enjoyable, considering how awful they AI cars drive.
Was definitely nice to see an improvement. Now hopefully they do something about the lifeless FFB when you start to slide, or even when entering turns sometimes. I just wish the weight of the wheel wouldn’t completely disappear.
Totally agree. They don’t seem to have the spin thing properly sorted out. You should still have some feel for steering because you can correct out of some spins especially the low speed ones. But in Forza and some other games it’s like you’re on ice in a slow pirouette. It’s not realistic.
It looks like I’m in the right place, I’ve done some research and cannot find any solutions. I have the Fanatec CSW V2, V3 pedals and CSL P1 rim. I’ve tried different DOR settings mainly 540/720/900, both wheel and game DOR are matched accordingly. When cornering in FM6 the front wheels start screeching/smoking while at full steering lock. Does anyone else have this problem?
DUB…
I’ve seen this sometimes, my front tires heat up while taking sharp turns. It seems to happen when I’ve run a dor of 540 or below. If I see it happen I usually switch back to 900, i dont ever turn the wheel a full 900 degrees so it doesn’t happen on 900. I rarely use anything below 900 unless a car definitely needs to be lower.
Yea exactly, the front tires will turn red if allowed. It’s as if your are able to turn the cars front wheels past its mechanical steering lock. This doesn’t make any sense to me, I’m hoping to get a clear answer as to why or how to correct this.
Are you able to post a video? It sounds like you are turning you wheel too far and under-steering. Do a few laps with the telemetry open and watch the detailed tyre friction, it can be hard to feel understeer through the FFB.
Or is there something else going on?
Interesting thought Blue, but why wouldn’t it do it using a controller? The cars I’m using are all tuned and do not do this using a controller. With the controller the car will simply push out of the turn without this issue. Telemetry shows both are losing traction (red), but that is not needed when you can visually see smoke from the fronts and hear the tires screaming. This happens off-throttle turn in, even when at normal speed for the corner. Thanks for the input, DUB…
It’s called understeer. If you’re front tires are getting hot ie. Yellow/red then you are pushing past the traction point of the front tires. As soon as the vibration stops and the wheel goes lighter you have pushed past the traction point. You should be turning in & holding this point of turn in traction. (Thinking this is heavier since last update but not curtain?).
Also Blue is right this will not happen on the controller because it has a traction point turn assistance that will not allow you to push past traction point. Basically Normal steering on the controller has a couple more assists than the wheel, which in turn makes the controller easier. You could say that normal steering on the wheel is almost sim steering because of these assist are missing. However they are missing because if they put these on then the game would feel really bad on the wheel.
In short the game is easier on the controller. It is possible to be as quick on the wheel but you must be right on it! Being as consistently as quick is really difficult.
As for Pcars they do not use some of the assistance on their controller this makes cars more difficult to control on a pad & a lot less forgiving.
The controller is fine tuned so that you cannot turn past peak friction resulting in understeer (speed sensitive steering) this doest exist on the wheel, your inputs will be directly reflected 1:1 in game so to speak. Drive with the telemtry open for a little while so you can get an easy visual representation of you front tyre grip levels, it will help teach you how far to turn your wheel. Also keep in mind that simulation steering has a faster steering linearity (more sensitive around center) than normal steering, so if your not already using normal steering it could be worth a shot too.
Now that makes sense to me. I’ll do some sessions when I get home, I wish the FFB gave more info related to the understeer / loss of traction. To me it just feels like normal feedback resistance with the visual smoking, audible screeching. I don’t know, just another learning curve I guess. Controller is way faster with this game, PCars is the opposite IMHO.
