The tunes eventually get shared anyways. I’ve lost count how many #1 tunes/builds I’ve received from someone who knew someone and so forth.
However, the drama this will cause will help bring some good entertainment.
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Don’t think I have no idea what I’m talking about because i ALSO drift. I also race. Both in Forza and real life.
I put hours into my grip tunes. (not to be read as mad/angry)
Lose what credibility? How?
Since the loss of the auction house/ storefront, The most used tunes will come from those high on the LB that have shared their tunes. You get credibility by being the fastest now. Having a good tune is only part of the equation, you also need to be a good driver.
If someone uses my tune and is faster than me, so be it. Become faster.
Not arguing, just want a simple explanation.
But I’d love to see hard proof that someone could take what we get in telemetry and turn those into hard numbers.
If someone could explain how you would do that then yeah, I’ll change my opinion.
I just cant see how you can get spring rates from it.
We also no longer can see how much a car weighs in the lobby so that totally removes that nice bit of info from calculations.
I know you can ballpark a tune off telemetry, but all the other stuff is going to have to come from actual trail and error. AKA your own tuning.
I think people just want to make it as hard as possible for others to even begin to copy. Which I can understand, but seriously have a little faith that your driving and the tune is what makes you fast.
IMHO they are just providing BS complaints so they have less competition.
edit: So yeah, someone show me how you use telemety to copy spring rates/ damper rates/ and sways and I’ll change my tune. Msg it to me if your afraid of he average joe finding out.
If top tuners don’t want their tunes to be copied through careful observation of telemetry data, then they should not use them in public.
Since the first two cars raced together, reverse engineering has been a significant part of motorsport engineering. If, in any racing category, a team will be extremely dominant one season, expect all the other teams to try copying their technical solutions the following year.
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Maybe that’s why I don’t get it.
Suspension is like %75 of a cars performance for me.
totally forgot that LB cars usually have unrealistic suspension setups.
Suspension, whether its FWD/RWD/AWD has similiar values, leaderboard car or not.
Same with the rollbars.
Its been like that since FM2. Once you know this “knowledge” all you have left to “protect” the hours you spent getting that car no one uses to a level thats competitive is that no one can just “See” your build.
There was a camaro back in FM5 that people were like, lets make it competitive. Within a hour/less, Worm and I had it in the top 50, that led to a small HLC between ourselves and a few other guys running a slightly different build around Indy.
Thats why we dont like telemetry visible.
It needs to be visible for you, the tuner, or in your own replays. Not for everyone to see.
EDIT: with that back, it leaves one option left, and thats to dashboard so your replay doesnt post. Ive never done that, but thats why the guys that constantly go for #1’s do.
If you take number 1, you worked for it. Someone else just copying your build and taking it… Sure they have driving skills to do it, no question. Could they have done it without seeing your build?
Forza in lobbies, outside of leagues is rarely competitive due to the low player pools for matchmaking. I have little faith that their timed window league system will fix that. All that leaves is hotlappers and tuners running the boards.
Yeah see that’s what had totally slipped my mind.
The fact that you LB guys have been running unrealistic suspensions setups. IE using the sameish setups since F2.
Taking that into consideration I can see your point.
Yeah I think that’s were all the confusion was coming from.
You didn’t have to dashboard in FM5.
All you gad to do was set your lap and then rewind to the previous lap. The game would decrrtify your time but the leaderboards didnt.
Same will likely be so in FM6
Could they have done it without TCS? Just kidding…kind of. What’s up Dust?
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Most of them, sure. I never ran TCS in lobbies as I liked to slip the wheels if I needed to.
Would we turn it on because it was OP if we wanted a faster LB time, sure…
Why is the player pool so low? Are there that few people that play Forza multiplayer? or is just everyone hot lapping single-player by themselves. I find that online is rarely competitive because the races are spec. Everyone is using fast cars with godly tunes that leave most people in the dust.
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No issues here drifter 
Where you lost me is when you say it is nearly impossible to copy a tune. I didn’t say you had no idea what you are talking about, I was just pointing out that it seems there are others who strongly disagree, although I do not want to speak for them. Frankly, I am too stupid about this issue at this point to take any sides. When I asked about the telemetry debate, I was genuinely interested. It appeared that instead of acknowledging the opposition to adding telemetry, you only wanted to address people in favor of adding it. That seemed one-sided to me, hence the question of credibility. My apologies if I misunderstood your intent or if I was unclear in my posts. So that’s the explanation as requested.
My original point is that if someone is able to benefit off of someone else’s work, I would have an issue with that. I am not saying they can or can’t, just IF.
I share all of my leaderboard tunes. I prefer it that way as it increases competitiveness. In fact, I am about to post an A-Class KTM-Xbow. It has numerous top tens in the few races I have raced with it, even a number 1 until that darn DTM Lionel came through and swept up A-Class (good job!). Come check it out :)!
Swerve, don’t start popping that popcorn just yet!
^they should make it similiar to 2 where you could choose to upload setups or not, people could just grab them from the leaderboard, no need for SF.
They should also make that a toggle for telemetry, those who want to share can, those who dont, dont need to. Shouldnt need to “cheat/exploit” the system to achieve a simple option.
Options are good for everyone.
Great suggestion!
Agreed! All in favor, say “I”. I
I knew there was something about you. You know your stuff. I.
This or this + SF system would be great. Will it happen? Doubt it.
Yes, the option to download tunes right from the leaderboard is what I am hoping for too.
For non-tuners thatd be the only way to get competitive tunes without spending hours searching and trying. It would make Rivals mode much better. If I am not mistaken even F1 2015 allows this, and thats not exactly a community centric game.
I can understand the point of view of having put in hard work to get the car right only to have it swiped and redistributed to others freely by someone else. IP protection is a problem various industries have been dealing with since the dawn of the internet, and I want to support the creator’s right to control distribution of their work. Certainly we all recognized the problem of stolen paints in earlier games. I think for most players, trying to reverse engineer a tune from telemetry won’t help much, but for the top drivers it can be pretty competitive and any advantage might be the difference in leaderboard position. Aside from the competitive aspect of the leaderboard, someone else could reverse engineer a tune and sell it and start getting the bulk of community credits as users flock to the most downloaded tune.
However, in previous games it seemed that some users were able to prevent their replays from being recorded on the leaderboard (certainly some were server errors, but some did seem intentional). That seems wrong to me. Obviously the game code should prevent cheating, but in real world racing everyone faces the same spec rules and inspection of their cars, and some sunshine rules seem appropriate. Also, I find telemetry interesting to watch during racing on tv, and in part I do want to see it so I can crib how to drive the track - how fast the car is going at any point, and which gear the driver is using. The gamescom article doesn’t say how much telemetry will be visible, and even though I would predict that T10 would take the full approach, I think an always-available toggle for speed and gear telemetry (and maybe g forces, since that’s cool to watch) would be appropriate without revealing HP/downforce/suspension/etc. Viewers should be able to see a limited amount of info just so they can be confident that the time was real, but also so they can learn how to drive. I think that’s fair.
I’ve also thought that leaderboards and replays should provide the ability to buy tunes and paints directly from that menu instead of having to go back to a storefront, just like in the car meets in FH2. If it were up to me, spectate/leaderboards/replays would have an info screen (like the one for car history) that would show Drivetrain, Aspiration, and Creator name for the tune used in addition to the assists used. I would think if the game automatically displayed that info, it would save the creator time by not having to type it all in, and it would help the users because it helps to know if a tune is AWD when one you’re looking for a RWD tune.
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Is there any feature in this game that someone won’t complain about? It’s really getting old already…
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I don’t think most of the posts in this thread are complaints as much as people’s preferences and what they would ideally like to see. Healthy discussion can be enormously beneficial to the developer. They have tons of feedback from their end users to assist in their development. Many companies would love to have this much feedback from their consumers to help them deliver the best product possible.
I am a huge advocate for the Forza franchise, no complaints at all. The entire franchise has been exceptional! But, I do have thoughts on what might improve the experience that I don’t mind sharing if a question is posed by someone. I think the reason some games or features get a bad wrap is only because previous versions in the franchise set the standards so high. No one can show me a better all around racing game with as much content than what you may think is the worst Forza game ever.