Long story short, people are just idiots when it comes to playing online. They can be a good player in the single player and then complete garbage in online where they hit you off the track, ram you for no reason or simply don’t give you space. It’s stupid. If these lowlifes would race half decent we wouldn’t be having this issue. The drift lobbies have been pure cancer recently. You’ll be sideways with 15k+ points and someone will go full speed into you and make you lose your points. Why should you be punished for their actions? Why lose your points because some lowlife decided to run you off the track. It’s stupid. So yeah, the licences would be great. That way we can have semi civilized race lobbies.
2 Likes
The only way that I would be in favor of a system like this being implemented would be if it was an option and not mandatory. I do not race a lot in Forza games … I am primarily a painter … so I would not want to be restricted in what races I am allowed to enter just because I haven’t put in the time to acquire higher level licenses. So allow the option to restrict races by license or not … that way if I want to race in higher class faster cars where I may not have a license, I still can … but if someone wants to set up a serious competitive licensed-only race then they can still do that as well.
2 Likes
One of the better ideas I’ve heard yet. I have literally had a guy rear end me into a tire barrier and then rage about me over his headset “because I took him out” Sorry didn’t know I made you pit manoeuvre me
What T10 immediately should do is perma-ghosting cars that are laps down. I can’t even count how many times my race has been ruined by idiots that I was trying to lap.
2 Likes
I would love licensing. I’d rather finish last in a race in a competitive lobby with clean and close racing than win in a lobby where half the competition has been taken out by crashers.
you have no proof. If someone is highly skilled they have no reason to wreck other drivers. 99.9% of wreckers do it because they realize that they’re slow/bad at the game and get frustrated.
And you have proof to back up your claim and clearly hyperbolic statistic?
1 Like
I’m gonna have to disagree with Cervy here because it’s not uncommon for good players to troll others. Not pointing fingers at anyone, but people tend to do stupid things when bored.
Furthermore, the fact wreckers usually know how and where to hit opponents for maximum effect does hint at the wrecker having knowledge of the game beyond the basics.
Would you please provide me the steps you took to construct your own Cerebro device, because I too would like to be able to read minds?
Oh, and for the record, the irony of suggesting that baseless comments have little value and then throwing out a clearly ridiculous statement with no shred of proof is thick.
Personally i think a license system is a bad idea and doesnt really help anything. There are only a few options for a license system. A license based on an in game arbitrary test created by t10, a time played license similar to the tiers on the forum, and lastly a skill based ranking. The first 2 are completely pointless. The last option also has 2 options which could go by either how safely one drives (with no bearing on the speed of the driver) This ranking is implemented in iracing as Safety Rating. This system for the most works however it allows people to wander around the tracks way off pace just to increase their safety rating to get into cars they do not have the skill for. Forza also wouldn’t implement a system like this as they are doing more and more to be inclusive, people would not want to hear/find out that they arent skilled enough to drive the cars they really want to drive.
The other “license” iracing has in place is “irating” which is more of a skill rating. Everyone starts with the same skill rating of 1300. This is a 0 sum system so in order to increase your ranking you must take it from someone else. This is a much better system in terms of a license as it is very hard to manipulate. In iracing the use of this ranking system is grouping everyone in their respective lobbies. It is my understanding that this is similar to how the leagues are organized. The downfall to the league system is if you are in the higher ranked groups in league you are often running with much smaller fields. To account for this iracing fills the fields from the top down so if 280 people were playing and each lobby allowed for 36 people they would run 8 lobbies with 35 people. The highest ranked 35 people would be in the top lobby the next 35 would be in the next lobby etc. This can be scaled for however many people are playing. In order to raise your rating you must continue to beat people or place close to where your ranking is. Otherwise you will lose points, continue to lose points and the next race you may not be racing with the same poeple you may drop to a lower lobby. This would put you against slower and potentially less skilled and more risky drivers. Now the implications of this are you either end up closer to where you belong or you will gain and get back to the other lobby. However, intentional wreckers eventually should end up pooled together in the bottom lobby and this solved everyones issue. The problem with this is that those who are wrecked accidentally by another driver both suffer.
I don’t know with the current structure of forza if either method would work. The problem with using strictly the first system is it does reward clean driving but almost too much and doesn’t do much to penalize poor driving unless they were to abandon their current state of inclusion. I can tell you that the first system does pretty much nothing in iracing because drivers can feel free to go to time trials and do laps slowly but cleanly to regain what they lost, but for the most part someone of moderate skill can keep a ranking high enough to drive whatever they want. Also in order to implement a system like this they would have to go around and put each class into a skill class to allow people to earn the rights to race each class. Another downfall of this system is that it is a no fault system (more of an all fault system). If you are in an accident with another driver both are charged with the accident regardless of who was at fault, which really stinks as i have been disqualified for reaching the accident limit from having minor contact with other drivers and not being at fault for any of the accidents.
The second system could work however due to the give take it would encourage everyone to drive the leaderboard car for the track/class due to the inaccuracies of the pi system or any sort of class balancing. The reason it works in iracing is most of the racing is spec series with 1 car or they have a limited number of cars which are rebalanced quarterly with each update. Another reason i dont think this will work with the current structure of forza is the lack of qualifying to start where you belong in the lobby (i know this is a mixed bag on if people want it or not) and also the length of the races. Races are too short really make passes with similarly skilled drivers and this would result in many accidents trying to pick up places in races this short. Similarly with the short races any incident is essentially a race ending incident with opponents of similar skill as once again theres not enough laps/time to progress through the field. Lastly, this system requires people to practice car/track combos in order to become efficient with them, this goes against the structure of jumb in a lobby and race anything you want and would also deter the typical forza racer from racing online, and if they do they would likely stick to one particular lobby with 1 car. This to me is great as it would make people less error prone due to not being efficient in each car, but i know many forza players disagree with this and this isnt how they enjoy the game.
1 Like
Nice breakdown of iRacing’s systems, personally the second alternative (iRating) is not all that bad because it could make Turn 10 finally decide to put more effort into balancing the cars. The PI system is imbalanced because “reasons”, and homologation was a patch, not a fix, which is why you have divisions as imbalanced as classes.
Unfortunately, any system tied to a single variable is vulnerable to grinding/boosting. AI routines are also vulnerable to exploits, which is why I’m skeptical of the Race Regulations system. I think it’s a welcome change but far from the fix everyone is expecting it to be.
Yes, definitely. I’ve been repeating this for YEARS.
1 Like
I don’t know about licenses, but the game badly needs some sort of sportsmanship mechanic, akin to GT Sport’s “Sportsmanship Rating”.
Seems like the first corner of every online race is just a mess of people bashing into one another, as no one gives anyone any space, some people just fail to brake at all, etc. Often your result in any given online race, is directly tied to whether you get lucky in this initial trainwreck. And that’s just the first corner.
Then you’ve got the people who are rammers - not necessarily to ruin the game for others, but because they are incapable of driving cleanly, and don’t understand the concept of giving space, and respecting the drivers around you.
Or the people who go off the track, then try to rejoin at a 90 degree angle irrespective of whether other drivers are about to fly past.
It’s a mess.
Well, is there any other way to do this? Mybe not the “perfect” way but it would work as a needed filter
A friend an I were playing online and both thought a license would be the answer. After reading some of these post, I can see how difficult that might be.
Yes I’m reviving this thread. Dealing with the rammers online is a pain. It’s a blast racing when everyone is clean, People don’t seem to know what a brake pedal is. A liscence system makes sense. Let’s those of us who want to race clean, race against other clean drivers, Rammers can stick together, I’m sure the dev’s are more than capable of making a good one. Don’t get me wrong I love the game. Just frustrating getting rear ended on the first lap every race.
That is a great idea. It will at least thin the cheater herd dramatically.
It will do nothing to stop the cheaters. Many of the “wreckers” are actually very talented drivers, they just choose to be turds.
You would think that at least in Leagues the bands would be a kind of progressive stepping stone towards better game play with players having a more mature game the faster they become. But in each band, especially Pinnacle, you have some of the most contemptuous drivers ever. Still there are gradations of fast even in Pinnacle and even in Rank 1, there are still those who are super faster than others. All good, But for Pete’s sake, let’s race like pros and not get into pissing contests in Pinnacle. If you’re faster, so be it - you’ve earned it for sure. So move on ahead and respect slower drivers on the race line.
License systems are quite tough to implement correctly and honestly, don’t work that well most of the time.
A safety license is probably the best system to use. Actual racepace doesn’t really matter online because it’s not the pace that’s the problem. The problem at hand is driver etiquette.
A very simple but effective starting point is to group players based on average time penalties per lap.
Once drivers have been grouped by the average number of penalties per lap, then grouping the remaining drivers based on average finishing position should come next.
Now obviously, you’d need a minimum amount of online races before this data should actually take effect. 30 online races should be enough for the data to accurately group you.
1 Like