Id like to start by saying this is not a major new feature that would go on the wish list and would not take a massive amount of reprogramming. It’s also related to gameplay, not a non issue such as how far the animated driver hands move or whether the exhaust pipes on the car change when upgraded.
Can we please have a rebalancing of the Modern GT cars prior to FM7’s release? These cars are not random cars in the same PI class. They were meant to compete directly with one another. Please don’t make it so I feel like I have to run an Aston Martin or Nissan like 80% of the Modern GT lobby to be anywhere near the pack. I don’t even really like Aston Martin. Competing against AI it’s not so bad but the times I’ve raced this online the imbalance is noticeable. I’ll admit, this is the main class I like to run so I’m a little biased here but it could help to actually balance cars within divisions if FM7 is going to focus more on them.
Thanks for reading and hopefully this gets transmitted to or read by the right people.
Quick note: A car’s default performance will be determined by the various power/weight/aero parameters supplied by the manufacturer and simulated by ForzaTech.
In other words, the cars won’t be balanced out of the box.
In Gran Turismo Sport their way of balancing classes is to apply Balance of Performance on top of the default stats, adding/removing power and weight where necessary and locking off all upgrades.
This system won’t happen in Forza because of the PI system.
Our only hope is that Turn 10 limit the available upgrade parts on all Modern GT cars so that when everything is bolted on each car as somewhat equal performance levels. If a car has inherently better grip in stock trim for example, don’t give that car any tyre width upgrades.
I’m not sure exactly how much programming it would take but you would hope that the cars can be adjusted somewhat to make them comparable by shifting a few values under the hood. After almost two years of data for FM6 they must have imformation corresponding to each car’s typical times, placements, and times and likelihood of use. If should be a priority to make the divisions somewhat competitive.
True true that’s all one can realistically hope for. Some of the guys on here who keep hammering at thier pet issues saying they are done with FM if they don’t get what they want could use a reality check. Truth is we don’t know much about any of the upcoming raving game releases with absolute certainty. We can hope that some things we want will change for the better. The series in general will improve though.
I don’t remember T10 ever doing anything about balance, beyond choosing a PI limit and car list for each hopper or league. Most likely hoppers are just XML files in a Content folder on the network somewhere. They’ve nerfed specific, obviously-OP cars from time to time or banned cars from hoppers, but expecting them to balance an entire division is a bit unrealistic. Even making a huge effort to balance cars that are pretty close to begin with and not having to worry about keeping he PIs matched, leagues like TORA still end up with some cars that are just a bit better than others.
It might be possible to persuade someone to change the PI limit, but I wouldn’t expect any more than that.
This has always been a big issue for me. Straight of the bat a lot of the Modern GT Card don’t match their real life performance. Then 90% of the cars can’t reach R900 when upgraded. I believe this is down to FM6’s career as almost all cars could reach the R865 required only 2 couldn’t I believe and those were the Porsche and the Jaaaaag and both were DLC cars but even then you could get them to R864 so they were still competitive in career mode. A rebalancing needs to be done but unfortunately I don’t think its as easy as it sounds.
Also lets not forget LMP LIMP and DP cars in P class… those were horribly unbalance as Well both stock and upgraded with only a few cars dominating out of around 20.
So you’re saying max PI for the Modern GT hopper should be 865? I ran in a club series and that was the cap there.
I’m not expecting miracles but you would hope that in the two years since FM6 came out and after this has come up in the past that they have looked at PI/performance imbalances and done something on their end for the next release. Even if it’s a work in progress I’d be down with that. My favorite car in the division is the Ferrari but it’s not as competitive as the top cars if most of a lobby decide to use them. AI have a more even distribution of models but players will choose the best cars, so a typical multiplayer hopper will consist of mostly Aston Martins and Nissans.
I mean yes and no. I’d rather the upgrade system change so that all GT cars could reach R900 and I would also like to see some adjustments to the PI and performance of stock GT cars that are either overpowered or underpowered to their real life equivalent.
Unfortunately I don’t think Turn 10 will do this, however like I said career mode is capped at R865 and it’s quite balanced that way with almost every car able to hit that 865 mark and the rest are only 1 PI away at 864. If turn 10 made the Modern GT hoppers and Modern GT leagues capped at R865, the racing would be close and more competitive.
It would also give cars that aren’t used that much in the Modern GT hoppers, such as the Bentley, Maserati and a few others a chance to shine.
If the PI system was a little better and cars at the same PI were genuinely evenly matched that might work, but it just isn’t. You’d still get a couple of cars that were significantly faster than the rest and instead of lobbies full of DBR9s, Nismos and GT1s you’re have lobbies full of whatever turned out to be OP at 865.
TORA have been running GT series for a couple of seasons and the only way they’ve managed to get more cars competitive is to define specific builds for each car, and have them all running at different PIs. And even then, once a bunch of tuners get their mits on them there are always several cars that no one ever uses because they come up short, and cars regularly have to be nerfed or buffed to bring them in line.
I think the main problem here is that “Modern GT” is a very vague designation. It combines several real-life classes from different eras that were never meant to compete at the same time anyway. It’s tantamount to watching a Le Mans race from the mid-2000’s, except every GT car - from a Saleen S7-R to a Porsche GT3 - is running in the same class. This is a big no-no in my book. Late 90’s GT1 =/= JGTC.
Combine this with the fact that racing cars can be upgraded, and you have a mish-mash of cars that perform vastly differently than they were originally intended. Naturally, cars that started faster will end up faster, even if the slower ones are upgraded.
IMO, if we want to split the racing class cars into groups, they need to be with their proper competitors. Restrict to stock upgrades for these races, but not for open-class races.
Full Disclosure: I do not race online, can’t stand the griefers and crashers, so I may be way off base here, but…
Seems to me that a modification to the default “rules” used by the game for each race could go a long way to solving the “balance of performance” for classes like the Modern GT’s.
Allow for a range of PI values, say from R864 (for the 911) up to R900 at the maximum.
Order the starting grid by PI values, from lowest in front to highest at the back.
Gap the starting times between cars based on the PI differential, where each PI point equates to a one-second interval, so a 5 PI point differential equals a 5 second delay. (shorter track might need a smaller gap, say .5 seconds…). Cars with the same PI would start together, either in random order, or else by prior race results. The goal would be for the fastest cars to be catching the leader on the final lap.
This would open up a lot a new strategies to the racer. Pick a low-PI car and start up front, and hope you can maintain your lead. Pick a high-PI car, but start at the back and have to fight your way thru the pack.
Maybe go with a R899 build, just to start ahead of those racers who simply purchase a LB car, and download a LB tune, since they will be forced to start at the back of the grid.
AS a side benefit, the Turn 1 Lap 1 chaos will either be greatly reduced, or restricted to the back of the pack, and not the front. (sorry, no answer for the griefers).
Seems to me that the problem isn’t really PI differential but that cars of the same or almost the same PI have varying levels of performance. T10 must have game telemetry which shows which cars are over-performing and which ones are under-performing. If I were just thinking of my own interests I’d have titled the thread “Buff the 458 in Modern GT” but the issue runs a little deeper than that.
The only real solution I can think of is balance all “race” cars like Modern GT cars to have the same PI and performance within the division and limit tuning to adjustments of things like suspension settings and tire pressure. No upgrade parts. Then all cars in the division would theoretically have the same potential with the only differences being for handling adjustments.
There’s a reason all of the Forza Racing Championship events have been spec series so far; it’s extremely difficult to objectively balance multiple cars so that their performance is relatively equal across multiple tracks. I have done some Balance of Performance for a few racing series/events in the past and even balancing 2 or 3 cars for a single track can take a long time, while also relying on extensive telemetry analysis.
F1 games balance things out by giving players an option to make every car handle like a Mercedes but that’s not something I can see Turn 10 doing any time soon.