Request for AI behavior examples and Difficulty level

Forza Motorsport Forza Motorsport (2023) Discussion
51
  • Your Difficulty level: 7
  • Your Car or Division: All, but it seems to get progressively worse in S Class or higher
  • Tour or Track: Most tracks, although VIR has been my worst experience so far
  • Specifics:
  1. It starts in Practice, where the target lap times seem to be borderline unachievable at times, even when you switch to softs and drive with a very low fuel load. This seems to get worse the higher your car’s PI is.
  2. During race starts the AI pile up and it looks like they actively try to run you off the road. Sometimes I have to restart a race multiple times because an AI just torpedos into my rear bumper, sending me off track.
  3. AI seems a little too committed to the racing line and doesn’t take into consideration that another car (most likely me) is possibly already occupying the same place on the track.
  4. The top 3 AI cars are often unrealistically quick everywhere. They take corners a lot faster than I can and I take a lot of time to tune my cars for cornering speed. In my last race on VIR the AI that was in first drove away a full 19s from me and even lapped the last 4 AI cars (in just 4 laps around VIR), while I actually had a nice battle for 2nd place with the AI for once.
  5. AI cars in general seem to be glued to the road, I’ve tried to PIT maneuver some AI cars out of frustration because they ran me off the road, but nothing happens at all. It’s like their TVR weighs as much as a main battle tank.
  6. The brake checking by the AI mid corner or on a straight is stupid.
5 Likes
52

Sounds like we have a very consistent set of AI issues across all difficulties/tracks.

Hopefully this is enough evidence, and has enough importance, for something to be done about it!

6 Likes
54

The AI and the penalty system work together flawlessly to destroy any potential of having an enjoyable experience. The AI can brake check, side swipe, and rearend players and somehow the player is penalized? I noticed the comment about anyone from Turn10 ever actually playing the game and I have to wonder if anyone from Turn10 has seen a race or even drove a car in a race setting. The aggresiveness of the AI is ridiculous as well, some of the actions would black flag any racer in the real world and some of the stuff the AI does would result in any real race orginization pulling your license and imposing severe fines. Yet, the FM AI will somehow continue along in the race just fine. Also, how is it that no matter the car, no matter the mods, no matter how much better the vehicle is than the AI, the AI is always faster?

10 Likes
57

It is across all car types and tracks. I am finding racing in general is enfuriating which makes me quit the game.

As already mentioned, brake checking, running really slow through an easy corner making you crash into them. As for cars going off I dont mind this too much because it adds to the realism of driver mistakes but not to the point it is now where it is a load of cars which do this. This should still exist but in a more realistic manor.

2 Likes
58

I had raised most of the concerns before the Game launched just by watching the demo -

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Each and every point I raised turned out to be true.

3 Likes
59

I’ve played on difficulty 6-8 and noticed some common issues with any combination of tracks and cars. AI is very slow on race starts (the worst of any FM I’ve played) and nearly always seems to be slower than it’s practice times.

60

Difficulty 4-6

All car classes

All tracks

Brake testing.

Runaway top 2 until they are caught and passed then they fade away

No overtaking behind me in pack, finishing order is nearly identical to start order.

What Chris Esaki sold me on the monthly stream is nothing like what is in the release version and 1.1

Ai is pretty much fm7.

Idk if something changed from the pre-release build he was showing, or the testers were starting 3rd and passing cars too quickly to notice the blatantly obvious issues in builders cup.

Sad really. I’m still enjoying the game but needing a thread for users to post examples of poor ai says a lot.

Not to mention the thub and shub threads regarding the ai.

2 Likes
61

Your Difficulty level: 8 (Started on 6, cranked to 8 as I got more familiar)
Your Car or Division: Any
Tour or Track: Any
Specifics —
High Difficulty: At 8/8 the top 4 run away from the pack, I run them down and fight to the front, but at 8/8 I’d expect the whole pack to be uplifted in ability, this isn’t the case at all unfortunately. Also they will race you hard, until you get ever so slightly ahead, then they concede the entire position and just brake heavily, this means if you need to take a position you only have to just nose past and the whole fight is over.

Front runners: This is the top 3/4, they race fast, and on some tracks are actually quite impressive, some like Spa and Maple Valley however, they will brake heavily on sections that should be taken flat.

Mid pack: It seems like once a certain number of vehicles are clustered around A.I, it is unable to account for all of them, so some become invisible (including the player), what I mean by this is, they will just drive you off the track, drive into the back of you (If you’re in a heavy car that needs to brake sooner) and generally just casually murder people. This leads to 1/2 the pack running each other off the track, someone is in the pits every race repairing heavy damage.

Mistakes and rejoins: The ‘mistake’ rate is too high, it seems like every race 1/4 of the pack has near fatal accidents, their rejoins are absolutely psychotic, no awareness of incoming traffic.

My take: I don’t see anymore ‘artificial speed’, in fact I get outclassed by some of the A.I driving on some tracks which is great to see, it drove me nuts in FM7 having other ‘equal spec’ cars sprint away on the straights, but overall the pack of dumbs filling out the other 19 cars need a bit of work.

5 Likes
62

AI difficulty 3-4, any track, any class

The spacial awareness and speed discrepancies other people have mentioned are pretty much just as prevalent in lower difficulties, although a bit more manageable with the lower average difficulty. Playing mostly at difficulty 4, most of the pack behaves how I would expect for difficulty 1 or 2 while the top 1 or 2 cars seem to drive like a difficulty level 5 or 6. Top position is usually catchable but in shorter races it can be unexpectedly difficult after getting bogged down in the mid-pack mess. The mid-pack struggles through turns with erratic braking and shaky steering. It feels like they’re just trying to block the player rather than trying to catch the top position cars.

I’m seeing basically the same spacial awareness issues others have mentioned as well. If I’m beside or slightly ahead of a car going into a corner, they will just plow into me to get to their chosen racing line as if they don’t realize I’m there. If I’m coming into a turn faster and in the process of passing them on the inside, they’ll still try to cut in instead of taking an outside line.

An option to add more laps to the career mode races (along with a bit of a credits boost for the extra time) could help with this a lot in the short term. It would give players more time to make up for the first-lap chaos and would just be a nice option to have in general. As it is now, the bad AI and short races kind of encourage bad driving behavior; if you don’t elbow your way through the mess in the first lap you won’t have time to catch the top 2-3.

63

In FM 23, AI difficulty 3 using pad on Series X. Lot of bashing and banging in back, and front 4-5 would pull away, the rest was like play WreckFest when going to pass car, plenty of room only to have them bash you or spin you out on exit from turn. (I always start in position 24 and work way to front). Installed a fresh copy of FM 7, complete with no saved game data. Started out at Average difficutly (0% bonus), and while can only start in position 12, it was ok some beating but not bad. Up the difficulty level a notch, and it’s like FM '23… same tactics, same beating, only from much closer position to front.

Just my observations, yours will vary.

64

Everybody, it might be a good idea to specify whether you’re talking about career mode or Free play, since the AI, in FM7, behaved differently between the two game modes.

Platform: Xbox series X

Track: Road America, Le Mans, Spa, VIR

Mode: Freeplay…1-v-1 against AI

Difficulty: 6, 7, & 8

My Car: multiple cars never upgraded or tuned

AI car: same exact car as mine

Rolling start, I’m at full throttle & never miss a shift & the AI car just pulls away. Replay Telemetry shows AI throttle at 100% until it gets a bit ahead & then backs throttle down to 97% & lower as the difficulty decreases. (Unless 8 difficulty, then throttle stays at 100%, as it should) Can pass AI on long enough straights because they’re not at 100% throttle.

AI often brakes at Road America Carousel & Spa Eau Rouge even though they shouldn’t need to. Other tracks have same issue.

Side by side in a corner, turn 1 & 2 Road America for example, sometimes AI runs off track even though I leave them a whole car width of track to use.

Once I pass a car, they just give up & never pose a threat after that. The only way they pass me, is if I go WAAAY off track or just go slow off the racing line.

Grinding career mode on 4 difficulty, starting in 3rd place, so have no idea what AI is doing, since I get to 1st place at the very beginning of race.

Free play is where I see AI behavior, reported above.

I will say, IMHO, AI behaves better in FM 23 than it did in FM7. But still needs work.

68

Some video examples.

  • Difficulty: 6

  • My Car: The Subaru available in the Practical Performance Cup

  • Tour or Track: Those in the Practical Performance Cup

Examples:

  • AI car (orange/white) brakes for no reason on straight, and I pass it.
  • AI moves to the inside for a pass (see mirror), but has no chance and only serves to crash into my car.
  • AI car (green/white) on my left fails to accelerate out of corner, another AI car (green/white) is slow/braking along the wall in a straight.
69

Some video examples.

  • Difficulty: 6
  • My Car: The Subaru available in the Practical Performance Cup
  • Tour or Track: Those in the Practical Performance Cup

Examples:

  • AI car crashes into my car, causing me to spin, and be hit multiple more times. Multiple AI go off-track.

*AI car makes a ramming pass on the inside, then fails to stay on-track. Another AI car has also run off-track ahead of me.

*AI car brakes heading into the fast straight for no reason.

72

What’s the goal here? They do not change the core of the “AI” same stupid “Arcade Bots”…

In core they have something like 𝗩max = √𝝻𝗴𝗿 with some fixed values and physics disabled. That’s why it feels “AI” is glued to the line without sliding or whatever.

On lower setting “AI” is slow on higher it’s fast… Ignoring laws of physics.

Turn collision off and watch that’s all it needs
Here is Diff: 1

Here Diff 8:

One is insane slow other insane fast. They drive same, same pattern “Pack of 4” followed by “pack of 2x2”, …, they slow down at same points to let u win and so on. And it becomes more stupid with collision on.

In Horizon idk it’s different i’ve seen “AI” doing things you can’t code it’s more like User-behavior. But yeah core is same u can tell in Horizon doing dirt/offroad

Let them “drive” the car… It removes things like that

Unknown-2023_11_03-12_29_22
Unknown-2023_11_03-12_29_221920×1080 1.55 MB

Fastest cars on Track but at end of list (ignore the laptimes :smiley: best ai)

4 Likes
73

More video examples.

  • Difficulty: 6
  • My Car: The Subaru available in the Practical Performance Cup
  • Tour or Track: Those in the Practical Performance Cup

Examples:

  • AI car attempts an optimistic pass on the inside (maybe even cutting the track), crashing the AI car ahead of me, and causing the traffic to crash, my car suffering serious damage after an AI behind fails to brake.
  • AI car attempts an inside pass (maybe cutting the track) entering the chicane, crashes into my car.
  • AI car is slow into the fast corner/straight and fails to accelerate. I drop back (can’t overtake safely), and the AI further brakes again in front of me.
  • AI fails to negotiate the corkscrew on Laguna Sega.

*AI braking for no reason exiting corner.

  • AI rams my car and makes an inside pass.
3 Likes
74

I play on difficulty levels 6-8. If you want to see something , set up a long race in free play on Hakone and watch the AI consistently get stuck in the wall on turn 9 i think it is…(The one before the start/finish line) I set up a 40 lap race with S class cars, and every time I came up to that turn one or two AI cars are stuck there

3 Likes
80

Difficulty: 5-8
Track : all.

The AI car in front always pulls away from the rest. By a lot.

If you find a difficulty that suits you and you are driving competitively with the grid of cars, you get dusted by the winner.

When adjusting difficulty to be able to race for the win, the whole grid is left behind by both you and the lead AI.

So… Basically you chose between driving competitively against the grid of cats OR driving competitively against one AI leader car.

3 Likes
82

Never saw a better AI in an forza game, huge step in the right direction. It is always a way to improve though. Not breaking on straights would be one big thing.

83

So I’ve found a way to see just about everything the AI does wrong all in one race. I’ll be doing every track one by one to locate problem spots. I race on difficulty 8.

If anyone else wants to try this too for better feedback or heck if the devs want to try themselves they can do this too!

Steps below

-Go to free play

  • Advanced setup
  • Multi-class race and pick whatever track
  • Change each individual group to a different class and make sure to put the start type to standing
    -Change starting position to random so all classes get mixed up at the beginning of the race
  • watch absolute carnage and all the worst attributes of the AI get immediately exposed in every turn.

The AI I’ve noticed responds to each other almost exactly the same as the player and it ain’t good lol. Braking on straights and on turns at weird spots, forgetting each other is there and ramming are all present in these races.

Once they fan out it’s all good (they can mostly drive) but don’t expect much passing.

4 Likes
84

Especially spa eau rouge. Even on difficulty 8 they still hit the breaks.

5 Likes