You were called an elitist because of your attitude.
One wheel inside the white lines and its still clean, I think its quite mercifull! Only problem is, do people obey these new limits or will this lead into chaos…probably will!
I was really uncertain bout Sebring’s new track limits at T17 so I watched a bit of the 2018 12 Hours of Sebring qualifying sessions and see cars run off near the wall at T17. Not a fan of the new track limits on Sebring.
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Recently explored the lines on Assetto Corsa. Wow! They encourage you to always use the curb. In fact the line assist feature has you on the green astro turf which some tracks use between curb and grass/ground. I was amazed at how far off the track was considered clean. In two cases I checked youtube videos of actual IMSA races on some of these tracks and I must say, Assetto Corsa has the true line. Cutting through rumble strips on esseses is encouraged in AC as well as IRL.
I use AC as a training ground so to speak. Whenever I get into a rut with F7 I do a few hours on AC. I always return to F7 an improved driver. Nothing peeves me more then going to a Rivals event, nailing down the lines prescribed by AC and real life only to have my laps considered dirty.
I know AC is more of a sim game than F7, but for the love of god would it kill Turn10 to set real life track parameters!
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Imsa rules state 2 tires must stay on track and all cars must stay on track in less not possible off track penaltys aren’t put into play till post race as for corner cutting that takes effect during the race
Tbh If the penalty system is good enough dirty laps should be a thing of the past. Laps would just be laps, penalties would be added to your time and thats the end of that. A system like this is obviously more difficult to create but games like pcars 2 and gt sport take this approach and i think its more realistic. I do hope turn 10 listen to players thoughts on certain boundary limits on some tracks because its not always so cut and dry as theyve seemed to have made it, Sebrings first and last turns are a perfect example. I guess we’ll all see soon enough what turn 10 has in store for everyone.
Not to mention how strict they are now on a FICTIONAL track on a real location like Prague. There was a fast chicane (the one below) but now with the new track limit you have to slow down a lot to stay clean and it totally kills the fun and thrill of going through at high speed without touching the walls.
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This debate is getting stupid now, you can literately drive almost fully over that line; to the point you can have the 2 outside wheels actually on the line itself. So long as the track limit guide is yellow, you are golden and setting a clean lap - Forza Motorsport 7 Sebring - limit testing - YouTube
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Edit (2 posts above)
So really Sebring is almost spot on - the last bend could give you a bit more leeway at corner entry to mid corner but the rest of it looks fine. Will try Prague in the next few days just to see how difficult it really is now!
The entire backstretch, start/finish straight, sunset bend (t17/the final corner) and turn 1 are all wrong. Turn10 has the “track lines” (assuming anyone even cares about them) far too inward from the walls. Scroll up and look at the picture of IMSA racing there. You can’t fit a car between the lines and the walls on the start finish straight. Yet in Forza you can dirty your lap there. Ergo it is wrong.
Additionally, the whole point of sunset bend having no enforced track limits is encouraging people to find the best line per car, which the “track guidelines” enforce by Turn10 actually prevent.
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According to forzas track limits this guys laps would be dirty
Watch “Sebring Raceway tutorial onboard Jim Pace Porsche 911 RSR 3.0L” on YouTube
I dont find the limits to be that bad but there are some corners that i think should be more consistent to other games as well as to real life. Being too strict can have an effect on flow and if some corners feel awkward it could cause more harm than good by causing more accidents.
Even I thought the margin of cleanliness was downright silly on that chicane before. It was like - why even pretend it’s a chicane?
I’ve been doing the division rival event at Prague and the new limits on the chicane drove me nuts for awhile. Even still, I agree 100%. It was pointless before no matter how much fun it was to fly through there.
Instead of bickering about who’s better than who, why don’t we provide constructive feedback on the matter? There’s going to be a lot of controversy when a developer just follows “The Book” versus what’s systematically tolerated in real life.
So if you find any key areas that you feel don’t reflect racing in real life, feel free to speak up and elaborate. I have a feeling that the devs released the new boundaries as a test bed. As long as there’s constructive feedback, there’s a good chance they’d be put into consideration by the devs before finalization begins.
Sebring
• Turns 1 & 17 - Needs to be up against the wall
• Turn 16 - Allow swerving left before turning right onto the back straight
Road America
• Turns 1 & 14 - Allow use up to the edge of the rumble pad
Virginia International Raceway
• Turns 3, 10 & 12 - Since the rumble strips here are situated within the width of the track, the boundaries should not jut inwards. Instead allow use upto the edge and penalise when the outer tires cross the outer threshold.
Prague
• Chicane section - Source of controversy. Some like the faster flowing old line while the newer line is more realistic. As a result, there’s a mixture of people following either of the two which adds an unnecessary hazard. Solution: Add rumble strips and cut guards/sausages to coax all racers into the new line. Please NO tire walls
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Very reasonable statement, also agree with your assessment of the track limits.
(now that I’ve finally tried things out since the update)
Personally, although I would prefer Forza’s limits to reflect how things are driven IRL, I’m okay with the new limits. Everybody is playing by the same rules. The fast guys will still be fast, people like myself will still suck, the only people who are really going to be affected are those that relied on exploits to be competitive.
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So after spending time with the new track limits, I find that 80% very good. So Im not gonna go into that side of the problem.
Let me talk about the problems that i have found and now that I have spend time with the new option, turning the track limits on. I have to scratch my head and ask. " did a computer do this or what"
On Prague for example, the chicane, which has take many player years to learn, now has been totally ruined by the way in which the track limits pretty much make it impossible to get a clean lap at speed. If you want racers to negotiate the chicane in the manner which it is now, then please place a barrier or something to force players to go around, like you did on Lime Rock.
2nd On Sebring. Why would you remove 1/3 of the track on the back straight and front straight, and the inside into the last turn, as well as the outside of the last turn as you exit the turn… guys there is simply no reason for that to be the case… In my opinion its simply to silly to clamp down on turns and straights that dont offer any advantages, its simply over policing the track limits.
Also the new limits seem to have been pushed in on all tracks by several inches on both sides, it use to be that we could place the tire on the line and and stay clean, now if the tire touches the line in many cases the lap is dirty. Finally can we PLEASE get ride of the stupid “next lap dirty” if there is a mistake made in the last part of the previous lap. Im not talking about the last turn, but in most cases its the last 1/3 or last 1/4 of the lap that makes the next lap dirty.
It would take an experienced FM 7 player no time at all to point these things out, and it really makes me think what the heck is going on at turn 10 some times… I know nothing will happen, but hey lets just get use to dirty laps when racing online… peace.
PS. as may of you probably have noticed everyone here in the forum has been racing since 2018 and are tier 4. well I have been racing since the 1st FM and have been writing on this forum many times.
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Final sector is much easier to delineate than final corner and much simpler to implement, since the sector timing system is already in place (unless you’re talking about a track like Dubai Mountain which doesn’t have a mid-lap sector split). The problem with using the final corner as the trigger point is that on some circuits (like Catalunya) the final corner isn’t speed-limited so by cutting the chicane you can improve your speed through the last corner and on to the straight (especially in race-cars) - rather than go through track-by-track, ribbon-by-ribbon and car-by-car to determine what makes a difference, it’s much easier to just say “any track limit indiscretion in the final sector dirties the next lap”. Also worth remembering that rewinds don’t dirty the next lap, so just rewind back past the indiscretion and then the next lap will start clean.
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I agree with soldier2dend (almost) entirely. I know some series allow drivers to really go wide, but I like turn 16 at Sebring as is. you can still swerve pretty far left before cutting in.
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It’s an interesting debate to say the least. Technically, almost all racing series state the white lines as the track limits, but barely any of them enforce this except for blatant offenses.
Take Watkins for example: in IMSA, the rule is “two wheels within the white lines”, but every driver goes completely on the rumble strips through the bus stop, lap after lap, for years and years, and no one has ever received a penalty for it. On Sebring, every driver goes right up to the inside wall into turn 17 and all the way out to the tires on the exit, every lap, and again there’s no penalties.
Most racing series understand that the drivers will push the track limits to their absolute maximum, and allow them to use as much surface as they can within a reasonable degree. In my opinion, if Turn 10 was gonna spend this much time drawing out the lines for each ribbon, they should’ve at least done some actual driving to understand the flow of the track better. What they did was decide “Ok, we’re just gonna do the white lines” before they even started working on it, and just followed that rule without thinking about it. It was a lazy decision and it completely ruined the flow of most of the tracks.
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