I been saying it a while now. People should be ghosted if there on diffrent lap like non-collision. This would stop all of the amatuer trollers
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I truly think if they made Tag Virus with Circuit Tracks like in Forza Motorsport 4 you would have a lot less trolls as you call them. Some people just want that high speed crash because they had a rough day at work. Or could be some other reason. They need user created lobbies again and circuit tracks for Tag that people can smash at high speeds.
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Well thought through but there are still problems. Take those races where there are more than one idiot and you’ve won a couple of races. They then target you so you end up with a big hit rate but the perps don’t. In earlier games the spoiler would often get kicked. This is still available but I’ve yet to see this used in 5 - not sure why.
2 Likes
if you’ve won a few in a row chances are you didn’t have any wrecks. you have been well above average and moving up for those races, you have built up a cushion more than big enough to take contact for a single race. and they probably did have contact/damage and thats why they weren’t competitive. remember its not just sorted by contact, its also sorted by finishing position. you’ll be bumped up to better competition or they will drop down to a lower finish group. the only time it would fail is if everybody is in the cleanest and best finishing group. remember you would be racing with everybody being the best of the best, odds are they wont play dirty. they couldn’t in the past to get up to that group. you would be racing against a highly filtered group, not a bunch of random people as it is now. everybody would be a clean racer, and if a few go dirty it would offend the rest of the room and get a vote to kick. you would also start playing the same people more and more, they would become online friends or rivals, but they wouldn’t be random strangers.
if you go up a group you may be the new kid on the block, but remember you would be moving up to a better quality of player room. they would be better than the average from your old group. eventually you would prove yourself to the new group and be accepted. if you want to scale it 1-1,000 or 10,000 rather than just 100 for finer detail controls that would be just as easy, it would just take longer to advance or decline to a new group. but eventually the list would sort its self out. over time you wont be in a lobby with those idiots, they wont be in the lobby to begin with. those idiots will all be playing against people exactly like them, in a lobby you never get entered into. eventually it’ll be like playing your clones online. they’ll all be about as fast and about as clean. you’ll be paired with people that are going to treat you just like you’ve treated everyone else. you might be a little better or a little worse, but close enough to be competitive. if you are much better or much worse you are going to get bumped up or down a group until everybody is about the same as you.
if you win every race and are clean they aren’t going to have to worry about you. you’ll be bumped up a level and out of their hair. they wont be able to hit you because you wont be there any more. and the ones that would hit you for that you probably aren’t going to be the 1st person they did it to. their past conduct will probably keep them from being in the same lobby to begin with a week or two after launch. if you stay clean you are going to be grouped with others that stay clean. if you play dirty you would be grouped with others that play dirty.
if you only play dirty once in a while, only after losing a few races in a row, if everybody stays clean the the average is 0 and zero for everyone. nobody moves up or down. two or 3 people hit you for a single race and ding you? you wont be the 1st person they’ve done it to. they will have dinged themselves out of your group before you have to worry about them. as soon as you “once in a while” happens you are below average, do it a few times and you drop. conversely new players are usually high contact, they’ll drop quickly and as they get better rise again since their contacts will become better than the average of the group they are in.
if you are dominating lobbies you wont belong in those lobbies, you’ll be bumped up to a better lobby and the players that couldn’t win with you there will be able to win. people wont be as frustrated because they wont be racing against people much better or much worse. the system would resolve the problem both ways. it would remove those not fast enough nor not clean enough for the lobby, or those too fast or too clean for the lobby. it wouldn’t just bump people down, it would bump people up also. it would remove you from their lobby so it would be fair for them if you are too good to be there. nobody that doesn’t belong will be in the lobby, nobody too good nor anybody not good enough. you wont have to worry about anybody hitting you and they wont have to worry about never getting to win. just like people wont be allowed to bash you off the track, you wont be allowed to sandbag and abuse the noobs. you’ll be racing against the people closest to yourself. would you hit somebody for winning to much? then they wouldn’t either. and if they are beating you too much you’ll be able to win when they get bumped up. it gets rid of the anomalies in the competition. if you belong in the lobby you stay. if you are too good or too bad you are getting bumped up or down but the lobby becomes fair again for those that remain.
if you are too good you’ll be bumped up until you aren’t too good, until you are average, until everybody else is almost just like you. being too good wont be a problem, not for very long anyway. nor will people too bad to be on the same track with you be a problem, not for long anyway. dynamic sorting based on dynamic stat tracking. just like you wont have to worry about people knocking you off the track for winning to much, they wont have to worry about you coming in and not letting them win. you wont be paired together before it becomes a real problem. but if you like lapping 2nd place race after race, those days will be gone too. for that experience again you are going to have to race drivatars off line. you wont win constantly, you will win consistently, you’ll be competitive not dominating. you’ll win your share but you’ll lose your share too. if you get too far from average you’ll be bumped to a new lobby closer to your level either way up or down.
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I really like this idea, it would sort a lot of the problems out in the public lobbies, however, sure we all know the term “rubbing is racing”…hell Forza even acknowledge it by using it as a title on one of the awards! For example, I had one of the best races I’ve ever had racing for 3rd place so not even for the win, I was battling it out with another guy all race and we were bump drafting, rubbing down straights. THE LOT. pretty much Australian V8 Supercars but in a BMW E30 and an Lotus Elan. It wasn’t big hits by any means but the frequency that we made contact would surely penalise us for competitive racing, FYI I had 3rd place the whole race only to lose to a late dive on the final corner! So how would it sort fair but aggressive racing?
An idea I had is instead of penalising any sort of contact the, game could penalise players in terms of the amount of G-Force in the contact, so if some tool just clean takes you out from behind they would be lose time, this does still pose a problem for people who just simply sit at one point on the track waiting for cars to round the circuit again as they clearly aren’t bothered about finishing the race. But then as some people have already said, once lapped cars should turn to ghosts for people on the lead lap, this would stop any griefers.
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damage is already logged in the stats. a tap would cause light damage, a full on crash would cause a lot of damage. just use damage totals (the number that would be deducted from you winnings with damage turned on) rather than the total number of contacts. 1 heavy hit incurs more damage than 10 lite taps and would give more of a penalty. eventually the law of averages is going to take over and everybody would be properly sorted. it would only apply to raceing, not tag. its like true skill but with two layers. it would pre sort by damage 1st then finishing position (finishing position would be true skill). if you try to ram your way to the front you would be grouped with other rammers. the griefers would be put in races of all griefers . the law of averages is why casinos always win in the end. over time a consistent small difference will be enough to determine. eventually the guy who just taps 1 time less every ten races would have a higher rating. the cleanest of the clean would have the best rating. if the online population is big enough they would be grouped with other ulrta clean races.
it would be only for the turn ten racing hoppers. for private matches the person setting up the match can police it themselves. if you want to get on sunset oval (if its in, just an example not a claim) and have head on collisions to compete how can fly the highest or farthest it wont affect your rating in private or user created public lobbies (again example not claim).
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I think they should do what they did with GTA V. Dirty players play with other dirty players and clean players play with other clean players. Also I think that you should have to pay for the dage you inflicted on other cars, not the damage other cars gave to you.
2 Likes
Totally agree, well said. 
One way to fix this would be to match players based on assists. Those people running you of the track probably wouldn’t make it past the first corner without TCS / ABS and other assists. It would als make training more rewarding for the hardcore players. It sucks racing against someone with no experience who can still beat you without effort.
kill sorry but that wont work. you do realize that even race cars have traction control and abs? infact they were invented for the track? before 3 or 4 launched, the first to have seabring raceway, they took forza to the event pre launch to show it off. they got the actual race drivers to try it out with the 3 screen, wheel, and perdals set up. pro indie drivers thought the game was flawed because it was not like real life, they were making mistakes they dont make in real life. they discovered that like you, someone had decided pro drivers dont need that stuff and turned it off, that was the flaw. so they turned those assists back on and it became so accurate they had drivers coming by wanting to use forza as a simulated practice when it rained. drivers who got paid millions a year, drivers we couldn’t compete with, used the exact assist you mentioned. they would laugh at you as a noob for not useing them if you couldn’t keep up. if you could beat them without the assist that would probably get respect, but losing without them wouldn’t.
trust me, if someone is not faster without assists than they are with assists they should turn assist back on and disable them one at a time until they no longer need them. assists are safer but they are also slower by seconds a lap. sure they can keep up and cause problems in turn 1, but if you notice even when turn 1 wrecks are consistant the same people seem to win online and the same people seem to lose online. if you cant win at all its because others are betterm not because they are cheating. even the driving line will slow you down if you stick to it. it may be the safest line around the track, but its not the fastest.
i have been wrecked by people who dont use assist when they need them than by people who use assists thinking its going to make them faster. i would rather people who need assists use them. i would let you use every assist racing against me. if you take me out in turn 1 you might have a chance in turn 2 or 3. if not the assists will slow you down enough i dont have to worry about you haveing a chance to wreck me until i am lapping you. if assists are beating you, they dont need to turn them off, you need to turn them on.
another thing you will notice online is that every wreck is the other guys fault. the car behind is always going way to fast and the car ahead was going way to slow. most people are not as good as they think they are. probably me included. go ahead and make a ghost lap then turn every assist on and try to catch it. it should be impossible. its not even close. it should lap you in about 10 minuets. (except lemans and the ring due to lap length.) try it the other way make and all assists ghost then see how long it takes you to lap it without assists. assists make people slower not faster. look at rrivals leaderboards. they are dominate by the people who turn assists off not by those who use them.
if they need assists and turn them off what happens? they wreck? how does more wrecks make a cleaner race? and they probably wreck into you. it’ll increase the number of times you get taken out not reduce them. can you beat the drivatars on unbeatable? turn on every assist and try it. they will be unbeatable. the people winning the races you are in have most or all of the assist turned off. thats why they are fastest. if you really are a top driver assists can not beat you. assists slow top drivers down, not make them faster.
if you need the assist online use it. there is no dishonor in useing assists. i would rather people use assists to not wreck me. to practice without assists race off line or rivals. dont learn in multiplayer, you are going to cause many wrecks learning to race without it.
turn every assist on and practice until you can run every lap clean and get almost identical lap times. then turn off 1 assist and race untill you can run consistent, clean laps again faster than your assist time then turn off one more assist. repeat that until you can race without assists. when you are finished there will be no assist that can beat you. someone with no experience beating you easily? not gonna happen. you’ll be beating drivatars on unbeatable every time. if someone with no experience can beat you easily its time to practice some more. a lot more. if you can get two top 10 drivers from the leaderboards to race against each other one with assists one without, i would bet on the assistless to win every time even if #1 has to use the assists.
you turn on every assist and i am going to lap you, and i am not a top 100 driver. you might even be a better driver than me but the assists will slow you down enough i will lap you if the race is long enough.
rdo3
“you turn on every assist and i am going to lap you” ummm how long of a race? what class? which game? which track?
in Forza 5 thereare few people have abs or tcs on & are in the top 10 so if the car is driven properly assists wont affect lap times.
“another thing you will notice online is that every wreck is the other guys fault.” ← so could I say everyone who has assists on will blame those assists for slowing them down?
cpu if they are good enough to be faster without them yes. they have the option to turn them off if they dont need them. so they are in reality blameing themselves without realizing it. turn every assist on and race your ghost. if assists made you faster the leaderboards would be dominated by people using every assist. look at the leaderboards. the opposite is true.
go online some morning. just remain silent and listen. occasionally you’ll hear people accept fault and apolagize but most often its to blame the other guy. and they will blame other racers for doing to them exactly what they did to someone else.
here is a random leader board, i just went off the 1st track alphebitaclly. http://forzastats.com/Matrix/Circuit/D/Bernese%20Alps%20Club%20Circuit
Standard Hardcore Country Team Name Name PI STM ABS TCS Shift Clutch
1 [1000] 1 1 [1000] [Spain] FRS Transonic 524 2/18/2015 01:29.123
2 [850] 1 2 [850] VGT PeRyTa 524 12/18/2014 01:29.187 +.064
3 [760] 24 3 [760] VGT PROFES1ONAL 524 10/3/2014 01:29.325 +.202
4 [700] 1 4 [700] ITRottofacce 524 3/1/2014 01:29.347 +.224
5 [650] 91 5 [650] [Spain] FRS KRITICAL 524 10/12/2014 01:29.458 +.335
6 [610] 6 [610] VGT Nikolai 524 11/15/2014 01:29.500 +.377
7 [578] 7 [578] [Spain] FRS Forza JoSe [Lotus] Elan Sprint 524 10/12/2014 01:29.536 +.413
8 [549] 1 8 [549] VGT CABRA 524 7/6/2014 01:29.646 +.523
9 [523] 5 9 [523] VGT ARIRACING 524 1/19/2015 01:29.697 +.574
10 [500] 1 10 [500] [Italy] V12 SGATTO 524 2/28/2014 01:29.700 +.577
11 [479] 1 EMW Simmo 524 ABS 6/30/2014 01:29.718 +.595
12 [460] 1 11 [479] [Italy] V12 STEFANO 524 2/17/2014 01:29.729 +.606
13 [443] 1 JFFR oo 3x oo 524 ABS 6/25/2014 01:29.754 +.631
14 [427] 1 12 [460] DTM BARRACUDA [Mazda] MX-5 Miata 524 1/25/2014 01:29.795 +.672
15 [412] 1 13 [443] EMW Dave 524 3/18/2014 01:29.820 +.697
16 [398] 1 14 [427] TX3 ROATT 524 8/19/2014 01:29.842 +.719
17 [385] 1 15 [412] EMW Racer 524 6/25/2014 01:29.865 +.742
18 [373] 23 16 [398] [United States] TRC blademeisterTRC 524 1/3/2015 01:29.873 +.750
19 [361] 1 17 [385] [England] Rich 92 F1 524 2/22/2014 01:29.875 +.752
20 [350] 61 18 [373] [United States] EMW Distant 524 2/17/2015 01:29.877 +.754
only 2 in the top 20 use any assists, and even then only abs. nobody in the top ten used any assist.
auto clutch gets used as high as #53. tcs gets used as high as #90. stm gets used as high as #155. auto shift gets used as high as #390 the highest using stm, abs, tcs, auto shift and clutch is #466.
how long would it take me to lap you? depends on on the varaibles you listed. which game? fm5 definantly, i suspect it’ll be the same in fm6. if the car is driven properly assists wont affect lap times? turn on auto transmission. you dont have as much acceleration, that affects your lap times. turn on auto braking, it slows you down like you would not believe. assists slow you down. the lower the car class the more assists slow you down. assists are overly cautious. they are there to keep you from wrecking, not to make you faster. if assists make you faster you are not a good driver as you think you are. if assists make you faster by all means use assists, it might keep you from taking us both out when i lap you.
yes assisted braking is bad but that’s because it brakes where ever the suggested line says to brake, also lifts the throttle when it is auto braking. Also yes the Auto transmission can hinder lap times ecause of the ai shifting whe not needed but tuning could possibly help that.
but TCS , ABS , and STM do not affect lap times that greatly
on Indy GP I did some tests with a B class Countach LP5000
I did a 1:37.131 with
full suggested line
ABS on
sim steering
TCS & STM on
automatic transmission
cosmetic damage
then I did a 1:36.437 with
full suggested line
ABS on
sim steering
TCS & STM on
manual with clutch
cosmetic damage
now with out assists of any kind I did a 1:36.189
To lap myself with the most assists being just 1 second slower that would be a very very long Forza race.
Now yeah if given enough I would at some point catch the assisted car that’s 1 second slower and pass it but would that not be still true with the ABS, TCS & STM run it would just take more laps.
so the point I am trying to make is you can lap someone who is just 1 tenth slower given enough laps.
Also worth noting I doubt many if anyone running auto brakes would be able to ram someone off the track & get away unless the person rammed off was using auto brake as well.
turn on auto breaking and assisted steerring. i did say every assist. but even if just 1 second its still faster. head to head you won against yourself with basically one fewer assist, manual vs auto tranny. it d class just the tranny will be much more than 1 second. depending on the tune/aero auto braking can definantly ram in the 1st corner. after that they should be too far behind to ram again which was my point until you are lapping them. his point was they were not behind, but too far ahead to catch. he wanted to sort by assists used, not by wrecks/damage or anything like that. maybe he was thinking if he didn’t have to push as hard to catch those cheaters with assists on he could relax and not wreck so much. i dont know. but i do know if someone is out running you, its not because they have too many assists on. they might be a better driver, have a better tune, have a better car, the jerk that wrecked you didn’t wreck them, etc…but its not because they had too many assists on. sorting by assists will do nothing to reduce wrecks.
I think another approach may be to ghost all lower driver levels. Possibly a grading system should be introduced that will only allow new and inexperienced drivers to level up on clean race craft could help. From the start new drivers are learning good race etiquette and then once a specific driver level has been reached - say level 150 for argument’s sake then the ghosting is switched off. On a similarly related matter I think all lapped cars should be ghosted anyway to stop “sour grapes” from a less abled driver who just wants to ram the better drivers. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve had my race spoiled because I’ve been rammed by a driver I’ve been lapping. Also the kick vote system in F5 is about as useful as a chocolate fireguard.
However the only real solution to the problem will always be to host private races which is fundamentally flawed as you have to race in public to meet likeminded drivers before you can invite them to a private race.
Ramming and griefing this time round will be way less of a problem than F5. People will have to stump up their hard earned to pay for this where F5 came out with a lot of Day One bundles. With F5 there were lots playing who didnt like racing games and they played like they didn’t like them. These people will not buy F6. There will still be griefers but less of them.
As for rammers…a lot are noobs not getting how to drive yet so a series of multiplayer licences would be a good fix imo.
worm??? day one bundles were not free copies. some places forced you to buy games + the system but you still had to pay hard earned dollars. the game wasn’t free., you still had to pay for it. the people that did get it free are the same people who will get fm6 free, people who get it as a christams present. some parents buy forza because they consider it to be a safe non violent game, no shooting killing etc…its rated e for everyone. e to parents means childs game, they have never heard the not so e online insulting. fm5 did not come free.
even now the fm5 bundle is 499 http://www.gamestop.com/xbox-one/consoles/xbox-one-forza-5-bundle/114861
without forza you can find it for 449 http://www.frys.com/product/7721518?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
and fm5 goty is only 50 so you dont save a cent buying the bundle. you still pay full price for fm5, without the free dlc.
there have been greifers in every fm game, so many that you get ghosted if you are going the wrong way around the track. in fm1-3 i they could head on you. not sure about 4. i remember some would do comps on sunset to see who could “fly” the highest and get a screenshot. i expect the same amount of greifers in fm6 and maybe more. the xbox 1 is no longer sold out so ms may include fm6 as a free game. you can already get assasins creed and halo mcc for free bundled.
Really late reply but…
The initial grief level in F4 was nothing like when F5. Yes they will always be there but in not so many numbers. Anybody, from whatever driving genre background, who wanted to drive had to get F5. There was nothing else on XBone. Now there are plenty more driving games and lots with a more dodgem style mentality. Why pay £50 for F6 when you really dont like sim racing and want to smash stuff up? Yes there are people with more money than sense that want to pay £50 for an hour or two of ramming but not many. My image of the average rammer is if the opportunity arises they will grief but if they have to go out of their way and spend alot of money to do it they won’t.
F5 was forced onto a lot of people who just wanted and XBone. I ended up with FIFA on Day One…I didnt want it and dont care for it. Lots will have ended up with F5 as they couldnt buy an XBone any other way. If they are of the griefer mentaility then an oppourtunity effortlessly came their way and off they go.
1:36.4 in B class is really slow, that is below average in C class. Transmission and clutch will gain you the most time. Followed by abs, tcs can help you in high powered cars. Matchmaking is probably the biggest problem for online games, it isn’t just Forza most games have horrible online play.
well ECT Loco UBoG that is my own build & tune. And honestly I am not good at either & I never claimed to be fast
so I am sorry that I’m not up to your standard
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