Optimum suspension settings

Warning you need to be good at maths.

Ok guys and girls. Here’s the formula to work out your spring rates for the car.
F= chosen frequency
MS= sprung mass (kgs)
MR= Suspension travel rate
K= Spring rate

K=4 x pi squared x F x square root MS x MR squared

Frequency = 2-6
Low downforce (superminis, city cars, hatchbacks, saloons, estates, trucks, vans,) = 2-3.5
Med downforce (Sports and super cars Ferrari, Lamborghini, lotus etc) = 3-4.5
High downforce (FIA/MSA race/touring cars/single seaters) = 4.5-6

Suspension travel rate
1.25, 1.35, 1.45 choose which rate fits the your style. The higher the rate the stiffer your springs.

Sprung mass
2506/4=626.5 (284kg)
(Total weight / 4 wheels= Sprung mass).

Chosen travel rate
1.45

Chosen frequency
2.5

Put it together

4 x PI squared x 2.5 x square root (284)x 1.45 squared =3496.99

Spring rate =349.69nm (after dividing 3496.99 by 10)
Add or subtract the difference in weight distribution

So for 43/57 it should look like this.
Front
349.69 - 7%=

Rear
349.96 +7%=

The result should be the perfect Spring rate for that car to deliver optimum weight transfer while minimising dive, maximising grip.

Example set ups
Soft set up (Ferrari 250 Berlinetta Lusso)
ARBs
12.16
9.41
Springs and ride height
249.6
239.5
8.1
7.9
Damping
6.5
6.8
6.8
6.3

Hard set up (Toyota Supra)
ARBs
26.52
18.16
Spring and ride height
572.9
713.4
6.0
5.8
Damping
8.3
7.9
5.6
4.9

See how with the softer set up I set the ARBs softer to allow the body to roll loading the tyres?? I’ve also got a higher bump stiffness to control the pitch and drive, allowing me to set the rebound lower to smooth the ride. So the damping is controlling the ride over all stability, ARBs are controlling tyre loading and springs are allowing more movement to give more grip using all 3 springs efficiently. You’ll need to run more camber at the front with a lower caster to rule out excessive camber while turning.

The hard Set up we see the opposite effect. I’ve got a much bigger ratio between bump and rebound. If you boost the rebound on stiff springs you’ll be skating over the track instead of griping to it, so we reduce the bump, increase the rebound to give a more complaint set up. What we also do it because we with this set up don’t want as much roll, we boost the ARBs considerably to provide a “flat ride” this will let you run with less camber putting more of the tyre on the track at any time generating extra grip. To compensate for the reduced camber however we need to boost the caster angle to aid turn in and exit grip.

The stiffer set up creates a less compliant car that is also much less predictable. Just as fast in the right hands but much harder to score consistently quick laps with.

Fixed.

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I usually just round about guess… but i keep picking up bits, thanks for this, i usually just adjust the suspension till it feels right but this looks like a decent formula :slight_smile:

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Excellent post. Could the sprung mass of the car not be deduced based on the size of the wheels and a reasonable estimate of the wheel density? Or is that sort of what you did here?

That’s pretty much what I’ve done. I presume the difference of 10% is about right as the unsprung weight is dynamic based on wheels, brakes, and a few unknowns. You may get away with 15% if you’re really pushing but an estimate of 10% I think Would be about right.

It’s what it worked out as on a motorbike with forged mag wheels and carbon rotors. So assuming that the theory behind it is the same the ratio should be the same.

You do realise that this is much like the tuning calcs and only good for a round about average tune???

To get to the top of the heap you need to forget reality.

Real world expectations do not equal in game performance.

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every time I try to adjust realistically, usually feels weird. In game the tunes get funky

The suspension model used in this game bears little evident relation to the real world. You’re better off studying the math buried within the game itself.

About500rabbit. Good maths, I may try it once, but like the others have said thats really only good for a base. Plus you keep mentioning sprung/unsprung weight. I am 90% sure that forza does not differentiate between sprung and unsprung weight. To forza it is just total weight otherwise rim upgrades would be much more beneficial than they are.

I know the game doesn’t differentiate between sprung and unsprung weight but it’s needed for the calculation. Have a formula set up F40 which is currently lapping 3 seconds faster than it was before tuning and only suffers from 1 wheel breaking traction in the turns so on a grip basis it does work positively. So it’s not a case of being just a base tune. setting the springs up to deal with the weight and distribution on the car is vital to creating a balance. To generate the optimum you need to have the the suspension, ARBs and damping working in harmony even in this game.

I’m not saying it’s fool proof or that it should replace tuning by feel, but it’s there to balance the chassis. What you do is Upton you. Try it, if it doesn’t work for you that’s fine, if it does that’s fine also.

Will upload the F40 with formula based suspension and ARBs when I’m finished at work. Will a version of the car without adjustable aero and you can try it and feed back.

Tuning to me is like cooking, you can follow a recipe book with pictures and all but its always going to need something else for your taste, formulas are created for a “BASE” but understanding what you’re trying to create is the key…alittle bit of this, a little less of that and BINGO, the perfect dish…lol…

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This formula could not possibly work in this format. Leaving all other numbers the same, replace 563.85 with 90 and 626.5 with 100 and you get the same end result. Basically as long as this 2 numbers are 10% different it yields the same supposed spring rates. It doesn’t take weight into account at all.

Unless I missed something.

… :face palm: back to the drawing board… What did I miss…

I know where I went wrong I’ll correct it later.

Fixed the formula… I misunderstood the theory so added irrelevant figures. Errors have been corrected now and the formula amended to work with Forzas laws of physics. Please try it and give me some feedback please, am working on ARBs and damping… Just need to figure out how to get the relevant data from the telemetry.

This is all very interesting, but I’m no mathematician. Isn’t the “square root of PI squared” just PI?

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Yes. The square root of any number squared is just that number.

Speaking of suspension formulas to use a base before fine tuning, what’s wrong with:

(total Weight / 2) * front weight % = front spring
(total weight / 2) * rear weight % = rear spring

I mean, it’s not the end result it’s only a base and it is far less complicated…

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And it doesnt bring in factors which arent relevent to forza.

so suspension travel you say is not relevant?? Neither is downforce or oscilation frequency??? Ok then prove it. Go buy any car you want, set your springs as soft as you can along with damping and rollbars then post the video of the hot lap. Then go do the opposite set them as hard as you can and do a hot lap and post the video for us to see. It’ll be very entertaining for everyone as a lesson goes.

It is far less complicated but there’s also a difference of 400 in the numbers generated. Call me picky but the system of just relying on the cars weight assumes your vehicle is in a constant state and doesn’t take into account the vehicle dynamics.

Ok best way I can explain it is going to the extreme. Your calculations results in a spring stiffness of 1732.9 on a ford raptor, my calculations brings it in at 1384.2. The weight is the same for both calculations as is the distribution…

My calculation
4 x pi squared x frequency (oscillations) x square root of mass X suspension travel =

Before people try and slate and say that I’m considering invalid data in the calculation maybe drive the shared F40. If you still feel that way fine. At least you’re not writing it off right off the bat.

Why are we dividing total weight by 2?

“…mmmmm…pie…ahhahhhh”