Just by means of logic and not math i would say yes.
Square root is the number in which ( YxY=y^2) Transversly sq rt y^2 = y
Y=PI
You cant access the data for suspension travel with proper numerical values. All you know is the ride height. Sure you can punch a number in there based on if you would like a stiffer car with little to no suspension travel or a very soft floaty vehicle with lots of suspension travel, but none the less it is still guess work.
I am not sure how making a car as soft as possible or as stiff as possible has anything to do with the relevancy of suspension travel or aerodynamic downforce in this scenario. I would never put on the softest springs or the stiffest spring and the softest dampening.
Do you actually look at the telemetry at all and use the information it’s giving you??? Obviously not.
If you did you’d know that you can get the info for the suspension travel from the telemetry no guesswork involved there.
Maybe you should try a car with the softest and then the stiffest settings with 0 downforce and maximum downforce… You’ll answer your own question.
Meanwhile here’s a basic description on how suspension works.
Downforce pushes down on the car using its suspension travel so you need to stiffen the springs to prevent the car bottoming out. It’s related to suspension travel and not ride height as demonstrated in F1.
Running any downforce requires you to stiffen the springs to limit Spring compression and with that suspension travel to prevent you from bottoming out.
Setting a car up for 2000lbs with no added downforce then adding 400lbs of downforce give the car a total mass of 2400 as far as suspension settings are concerned, not 2000. That’s 400lbs extra that you’re not accounting for in the set up which will affect handling and stability as well as braking and acceleration.
Yes i understand how a suspension works. However aero is a variable number. Just because you set it for 400lbs does not mean it is always 400 lbs. It is not adding static weight to a vehicle. Also, nowhere does it demonstrate suspension travel in a non relative to the vehicle number. suspension travel is not something like 8" on the vehicle. If it is provided in a number (i dont believe it is) it is a number that changes based on the vehicle. It is not a constant number as in if you make it 4" on vehicle a 4" on vehicle b they are now the same. They are a value based on each individual vehicle, which has a set of minimum and max values preinput by the developers, no matter how much tweaking you do to your settings you are unable to change this unknown value.
No but you can take the figure of fully compressed and fully extended. The difference is your travel it’s really not rocket science that.
No where did I say the downforce is a constant either but you still need to account for that extra mass when setting the springs up! This really isn’t rocket science buddy.
You don’t set suspension up around at 2000lb car knowing you’ve got potentially 400lbs of extra mass from the downforce you’re generating. You set it up to deal with the potential total of 2400 not 2000.
As for you’re “I don’t believe the numbers are given” look at your compression graph unless I’m hallucinating the numbers are given quite clearly.
I dunno man. I’m pretty sure most of us just want to drive video game cars fast without having to enroll in a physics class. I do respect your work however, you either had to have spent alot of time thinking about all this or you plagerized the hell out of someone who did. Eh, either way…nice job
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You all understand nothing and LOL to the guy using math that said he tuned cars as well as I did.
Downforce is also a constant in Forza, it doesn’t increase or decrease depending on your speed. It’s always 400lbs or driving vehicles on the limit would get you more grip, not less much like an F1 driver getting more out of the same car than someone who couldn’t keep the tires warm.
Also this game doesn’t factor in suspension travel based upon the car. When you upgrade a suspension on a stock vehicle that vehicle has the same generic suspension underneath it as every other car that has been upgraded. The Honda and the Nissan and the Ford all turn into a Forza. It’s why the same settings (or area on the slider) work on nearly every single car.
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Thank you W0RM for stepping in and explaining that. It’s clear and simply put; and, you beat me to it.
I’m sorry that you spent hours working this out. If this works for you, then by all means keep using it.
I don’t think it will work for me. I don’t want to put this much time into a base tune for a car because even after I use your formula I would have to drive the car, then make some changes, and now your formula is invalid. After adding upgrades you should always drive the car before applying any for of base tune. That said, as W0RM pointed out, once you apply a Forza Race Upgrade the car basically becomes a Forza manufacturer and you can use the same basic tune - slider location, not numbers - on any vehicle. It’s how people like Raceboy77 get so many tunes out so quickly and the cars are all fairly drivable. Sure, this doesn’t take into account variations for different tracks but it does provide a good base tune.
As for base tune formulas, between the Forza 4 forums, the Forza 5 forums, the Forza Horizon 2 forums, and now the Forza 6 forums there are many threads containing volumes of formulas, links, calculators, and apps that can provide you with a base tune that is relevant for Forza Motorsport. Why introduce a new one that is more complicated and irrelevant?
I can appreciate what you’ve taken the time to do. If you were setting up a car to tackle real world race tracks it would be more relevant but this is just a video game and you’ve gone so far over the game’s capabilities it does not apply.
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just read this entire thread…now I need a nap because my little pea brain hurts.
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Again no where did I say it replaces tuning for feel. The formula is just there to create a strong balance.
In any case use it, don’t use it it’s your choice im not forcing it on anyone.
It took me hours to work it out. Using the parameters I could get my hands on from the vehicle data and telemetry.
For those interested in trying my formula tune for comparison try the F40 I shared.
I will give it a go tonight. Does the tune have the numbers you came up with using your formula or did you fine tune it after? if so how much tweaking
The F40 is just tuned with the numbers from the formula. Damping and ARB were tweaked to feel
ok so base tune suspension made easy, and gets the same result. total weight of car is 2400kg as a figure for this example.
I look at next the balance, say 53% to front.
So now i use 2400X53/100=1272.
Now i divide that by 2, gives me 636kg for front springs.
I then do the same for the rear but 47 instead of 53. gives me 564kg.
That is my base and i usually end up within 5kg either way depending on wheel spin. The rest is all anti roll bars and alike.
The origional method is much the same really i n its essence, but fancy terms and X or Y make people feel smart i guess.
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Sorry i made a boo boo. I then add the amount of downforce to front and rear that i am running. so 100kg to front would get 736kg. I find this works on allcars except for the rediculously hard to tune rear engine cars at 42% front as these cars have no physics what so ever
Very nice, but I have a couple questions.
- How Do I know what frequency to choose? Or how do I know which cars fall under low, medium or high?
- Let’s say I choose Low downforce, how do I know what number between 0.5-1.5 I should choose?
- What unit does the suspension travel need to be in?
- Does ride height affect suspension travel?
- I did this equation on my calculator and got 8,733.6. Did I miss something?
- What unit is my final number in?
Very nice, but I have a couple questions.
Questions answered
- How Do I know what frequency to choose?
saloons and city cars (Audi A4, S1) are low downforce, stuff like road going ferraris are considered medium downforce and then your track only cars like the gt3 and Gtlm cars are classed high downforce.
- Let’s say I choose Low downforce, how do I know what number between 0.5-1.5 I should choose?
The lower the frequency the softer your springs.
- What unit does the suspension travel need to be in?
Doesn’t matter too much a saloon will have more travel than a sport or race car so 1.25(race car)/1.35(sports car)/1.45(saloon/hot hatch/ superminis) - Does ride height affect suspension travel?
Not that I’m aware of, but if you’re running a lower ride height you need to increase the frequency to stop it bottoming out.
-
I did this equation on my calculator and got 8,733.6. Did I miss something?
… Uhhhh sorry that’s my tax figure for the year… 2 calculators going at the same time lol
#looks abit confused -
What unit is my final number in?
Divide the final number by 10.
Many thanks to MrGr3tsch for a brief summarization of what will work for those of us without engineering degrees. I used his formula and have found it VERY effective.
The rest of this thread rant was MOST entertaining.
It IS only a game - FAR from being the real deal.
I read the mention of pie … yes, 1st hockey intermission … pie time!
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This is all amazing information that someday I hope to understand, as far as the math part goes. I will never be one of the fastest and I have a rough time with math. I can understand the cause and effect, just when the numbers get put in I can’t keep focus. My sister has a learning disability with math, most likely me too. I tune to what let’s me drive how I want to drive. I love big muscle that has great turn in and just that little hint of oversteer as you accelerate out of a turn. I still tune a lot like I did in 4, changing some stuff here and there, but I don’t think I will ever be able to grasp the math like you guys. Hats off to you all that can do all that for sure!!
Why do people have to slate other peoples ways of getting around tuning??
Especially from so called veteran Forza players! Grow up!!!
Just for the record, I was being 100% sincere. Whatever works for whomever, man. I just literally can’t do the math. Incase that was me that offended you, somehow.