So this is taking a direction i don´t want it to.
I have no intentions regarding tunes, infact i don´t like tunes at all.
I only would like to know in a replay from myself how fast i were in certain track areas.
Or to see the lap times which were the fastest.
That´s all. But maybe i´m the only one who is interested in that.
worm??? be honest…did you use telemerty to learn to tune? so why deprive new players of the same oportunity? its used to fine tune your own tunes more than copy tunes. if you want to copy a tune you can just download it. what it does is protect those who used telemetry to learn to tune from new competition. you got to use it so its time to not let anyone else have the same oportunity. and thats just wrong. tuners are not afraid of someone haveing the same tune…they are worried about people making better tunes. i’ve tried one or two of your tunes…and tg tak what ever his namee is has much faster tunes for my driving style.
if it was truly YOUR tune you could sell it and there isn’t anything turn ten could do about it. the fact is its turn tens ip. same wit the paint jobs. quit being afraid of competition, if someone can better let them be. the painters and tuners are getting like the wreckers in forza. if they cant win nobody can. you want to protect your rep and keep people who dont know any better from finding out the truth. you want to keep them thinking you are the best. you want to keep them from discovering that with the right tools and research they could learn to tune even better than you. does tak copy you? nope. he has no need to. you aren’t the best tuner in the world, you aren’t even the best on your team. i cant win every race, that dosn’t mean i try to prevent others. its time to let everyone have the full game, not just a few who feel entitled. it would be like me claiming thats my line around the track, nobody else can use it. and that also would be wrong.
look up the old tutorials about tuneing even going back to forza 1. what was the advice? watch the telemetry and make 1 adjustment at a time. worm have someone at turn ten look thru my history. i dont use your tunes. you dont have to worry about me stealing your stuff. i have been useing only factory paint since i discovered the y button let me have that option. i want telemetry back not to steal from you…but to beat you. for my style your tunes are average at best, i think i could do better. i think i should be given the tools to give it my best shot. why would i waste the time copying anything? if the exact same thing is what we were after it would be much easier just to download and use yours. if i am going to put in the time i dont want what i could already have…i want something better. most people are like me.
get over thinking nobody deserves anything because one or two kids hurt your feeling in the past because they weren’t smart enough to spend the time making a better tune than just copying. i think turn ten should strip out all the tuneing and all the painting if the racers have to endure a lesser product to protect a vocal minority. its a racing game, not sim city or barbies make up adventure. its not an art game, its not a strategy game, its a racing game. strip out the selling and or credits from paining/tuneing and the game will still sell. strip out the racing and it wont sell. i would rather have zero shared tunes and paints if it gets me more tracks and racing tools back.
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Wow… I do agree with a lot of what you said, but I can also see Worm’s POV too, but to a lesser degree. I never had any of the other Forzas so I don’t know exactly what took place. What I do know is that I am at a point where I’m trying to do all of my own tuning. I’m just ok at it, but would love to have telemetry during replays. Right now, you have to watch the telemetry while you’re running a lap. I’m blind in one eye, do you have any idea how hard it is to watch the road and try to glance at the telemetry at the same time? Its virtually impossible for me. Being able to run a lap at full bore and then go back and watch a replay with telemetry would be incredibly valuable. I could care less about Worm’s, or any other tuners tunes. I don’t care at all about the top drivers either. I don’t want your “secrets.” I want it to make me better at learning how to tune for myself so I don’t have to download tunes that are only marginal for me and can’t make any changes to.
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Nope, I learned on my own by trying to be better and getting help here and there from people. Do you know how many steal tunes/builds from replays? It’s tons of people, tons.
Bitter much? Takumi can also tune alright and is fast. You aren’t really serving your purpose of insulting me by complimenting my friend/teammate.
At this point I’m pretty sure you are clueless as to what I do. There are plenty of people faster than me, I also wrote the tuning guide, answer questions in it, give people settings and builds, etc. I made a video for the bounty hunter all to help people improve. I do more to help than I ever hide from anyone. I shared a #1 tune last week, I’m not afraid of competition. There isn’t even enough of it right now. I can go do 3 laps and run a top 15 . Thing is, when I go tune a car and bust my butt to find something and do…it sucked that in past titles Braveheart could potentially go take what I had worked hard on almost to the number and it sucked for him that I could potentially do the same after he had.
I’ll be sure this never happens. : )
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Seriously? Who cares? We’re talking about tunes in a game, not guidance chips for cruise missiles from the military. I realize that a lot of effort goes into creating a tune. I’m finding that out more and more with each tune of my own I do, but I could care less if someone “steals” a tune. Really, all they have to do is ask for it and they can have it. Its a game… I dunno, maybe you’re losing sight of that? Just a thought…
That’s quite some fighting talk from someone who hasn’t set a single top 400 time let alone top 100…
It’s not the tune making you average…I used one of Worm’s tunes the other day and put the Lotus E21 into the top 30’s and 20’s around Prague’s various layouts.
Worm has helped thousands of players new to the Forza series, it’s no coincidence his tunes are pretty much without fail the first ‘recommended’ tune for people to pick…what have you contributed to the community??
As much as I agree that telemetry does aid you when tuning and it would be nice to see it make a return in replays I’m not sure attacking Worm for his opinion is the best way to go about it. Just because you are faster in someone else’s tune doesn’t mean his tune is worse-it just means it doesn’t fit your style of driving as well. Iv used a few of his tunes in FM4 and they were great, really helped me work out where I could improve my own tunes. But to each their own…
Let’s settle down folks…
There are clearly two opinions on this issue.
Some of the Hot-lappers really felt that viewing the telemetry during a replay gave other players an unfair advantage. Much of the car’s setup and tuning parameters could be gleaned from that information.
On the other hand, there are people like myself. I don’t tune cars, and I don’t compete for the hot-lap leaderboards. However… It absolutely pains me that we don’t have telemetry in replays anymore. Why? Because it is an invaluable teaching tool. Over the years I have spent a great deal of time watching other people’s replays in order to give tips on how to improve - and by that. I mean how to improve their driving not their tuning.
It was great being able to watch a replay and tell the person “OK, you should be at 125mph at this point, and you’re only at 122mph… and that’s because you should have been at 92 at the previous apex but you were only at 90.”
Can’t do that by chasing a ghost.
So,as I’m not a tuner, I can’t determine how much can still be determined by closely watching the FM5 replays (without any data), although it appears some folks feel you can still get all (or most) of the information you need.
I can, however, say that the telemetry and lap-time data is possibly what bugs me most about the changes introduced in FM5.
- Don Ente
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Ummm. Just my two cents here… but. His post was worded in that manner because “worm” insinuated that people are using the telemetry feature to “steal” others tunes. That to me is absolutely ridiculous. I loved the telemetry feature so I could help my own laps by watching MY laps. It was a good feature that is now gone and that is not a good thing. GT5 & GT6 have telemetry as well and it only makes that game better (not better then Forza mind you). Please Turn 10 bring back replay telemetry. It is a great feature and one sorely missed by many.
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i didn’t attack worm…he attacked all of us assuming the only reason we want telemetry is to steal his tune. he assumes none of us could ever be as good, that the only reason for telemetry is to steal. he used telemetry to learn, and he learned he didn’t copy. yet he assumes we are all to stupid to learn the same way he did. it helped you improve your own tune? then you didn’t just copy his? are you sure…because worm thinks you must be stealing to be good.
and i also notice that EVERY person saying “do it all yourself” have a team tag, they all know what other people should do…and its not to be allowed to do the same exact thing they do. yes i find it offensive to be called a thief, to be called inferior. and mlr saying “i’m #1” so its time to stop everyone else. i paid the same price for the game they did, i have the same rights to use it.
don where it helped me the most was in the turns, you could go back and see each tires grip thru the turn and the cars weight transfer. do you need to tighten anti roll or did you go to far? is there a bum in the track when a driving line over the bump with a higher ride hight and softer suspension will save you alot of time over having to drive around the bump. its like that one bump on lemans where you dont even realize its there until you go flying trying a new line. i am better than average but not good enough to drive a perfect highspeed corner with the shifting/brakeing/ acceleration etc…and still be able to absorb the tememtry screen even if i had it up. you have to be consistant for the telemetry to help you and you can be consistant while distracted by watching the telemetry while racing, well i cant anyway. its a catch 22 live. i need it in the replay. and i need watch the corner in different screens. 1st watch the tires grip/contact patch. then watch the cars weight transfer. and the suspension. will stiffer anti roll or springs help share the burden across more tires? if one tire come all the way off the ground, usually the inside tire all the burden is on the outside tire. if you push that lone tire too far you lose both and your going off track. can you get the other tire back down thru tuning? is slowing down going to get you faster out of the corner? is there another line? would changing the gearing help with the torque? is being on the lone wheel actually the fastest way? how much more can you push a lone tire before it loses grip?
once you know what the telemtry is saying it not only gives you the answers but can answer questions you havent even asked yet. it’ll tell you what part to tune, where the problem really is, and about how much to adjust it. it’ll tell you when you have hit the peak and are starting to go to far. it saves time by reducing the guessing. some have said they can get all that info without the telemtry and if so then removing it for the rest of us accomplishes nothing.
It just takes a little more time. Go in car and watch the tach
CBH, cross line at 146 in 5th gear.
1
63 before braking for turn 1
Turn 1: Dropped to 3rd (should be 4th) and hit 93 mph before accelerating.
Turn 2: 74 mph before accelerating in 3rd gear
164 before the next corner
Turn 3 (might actually be 4): 54 before accelerating in 2nd gear
104 mph then drop to 60mph at Corvette bridge
Next right you take in 3rd and slightly lift
Left before carousel you hit 141 then drop to 61
You take carousel in 3rd dropping to 102 during it.
blah blah
Just get in car and watch, some of the older cars are tougher to read but it’s there. Just take the car into test drive on the indy oval and find where it matches.
Blah Blah is right…
You forget that there are a lot of players - let me stress that point - A LOT OF PLAYERS - for whom this is a video game.
They want to have fun. They want to improve. But they don’t want to put in the time and effort to climb to the top of the leaderboards.
So when they look at a perfectly good tool for learning - replays - and find out that all that helpful information is gone, it’s disappointing.
blah blah…
Hey Bob - I sent you a replay to review. It’s from a 15-lap hot-lap session, where laps 10 and 11 were really good, but you can clearly see that I lost 0.37 seconds between turns 5 and 6.
“Just get in car and watch…”
No lap-time information, no telemetry, not even lap counts. Use the jump-ahead, jump-ahead, jump-ahead a bunch of times… lose track of your lap count… start over.
“Just get in car and watch…”
blah blah…
We get it. The top hot-lappers didn’t like people watching their replays, let alone viewing the telemetry. That’s not everybody who plays the game.
Can you even acknowledge that there were legitimate uses for the telemetry and lap/time information for individual players to analyze their own performance?
Or are you going to only consider the viewpoint of the top-of-the-boards competitors, and what they feel is important?
blah blah…
- Don Ente
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Because you aren’t at the level or anywhere close to it that it would matter? I don’t mean it as offensive but it takes a lot of effort to compete. Everything is just a game in the end, you can’t fault someone for wanting to do it better than the next guy when the fraction that may separate them could be found in telemetry.
What’s the level that I am at have to do with it? You don’t think I’ve spent a lot of time making my own tunes? I probably spend a lot more than you on any one tune because I don’t have the experience you do at it. I make lots of mistakes and have to go back and keep correcting things. I fail to see where it matters if anyone finds the “secret” to a fraction in a tune. It still comes down to your ability to drive the car. I used to download a lot of your tunes. They were pretty good, but my own tunes get me much much further in the game. That’s not a slight on you in any way, shape, or form. Just the way it is.
Dude, no offense, but clearly you are very ego driven when it comes to this. What a terrible thing it would be if the free world knew what Worm’s “secrets” were. Really???
Whatever… Want me to call Fort Knox and see if they’ll set some of that gold aside to make room for your tunes? Obviously they are a very precious commodity, they should be under the tightest of security.
Worm, check yourself, please stop being so derogatory. You just unabashedly insulted that guys tuning abilities without any prior knowledge. Just because your good doesn’t give you that right.
Besides, the way I see telemetry watchers is the way I see paint-tracers. They might get close but it will never be quite as good.
By the way. I have been wanting to know, how do you even watch your replays?
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Well I didn’t know of this possibility of stealing the tunes just by looking at the telemetry…I understand Worm’s point of view. But for me the telemetry was a precious learning tool.
Actually I don’t need all the information that it gives, I would settle for a “restricted” telemetry, just show me the speed, the gear (these 2 are difficult to read in some cars, at least for me) and the 2 indicators for brake and throttle.
For example I used to brake and downshift in a really poor way, untill I saw the video Worm posted a couple of days ago for the CBH where I could see the red and blue bars…starting from there I improved a lot.
I never said it didn’t help but you are sitting here talking out of both sides of your mouth like it still isn’t accessible either. Get in the car and look at it and stop being lazy. It takes 5 more minutes to figure out what YOU are proclaiming than it did before.
I can go back to I learn how to drive my car by being on a track. I don’t learn by watching your inputs. Why should you benefit from what I spent time doing unless I choose for you to benefit from it. It should be my choice.
I don’t see Red Bull sharing their tech to Ferrari on how they cut cylinders do I? I don’t go to a track day in the exact car you own and get to see your throttle inputs in your Porsche do I?
Figure it out Don, you’re a smart guy
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Yes, I’m talking out of both sides of my mouth — in that I am saying I see YOUR side as well as the OTHER side. I know you meant that to be derogatory, but it was actually a compliment, thanks.
No, I don’t see Red Bull sharing their tech… i.e. I understand the top-of-the-boards level competitors not wanting to share information.
On the other hand, for track day driving… for High Performance Driver Ed… for Racing Schools… etc, etc, etc… ABSOLUTELY they share and evaluate all information possibly available. i.e. the vast majority of Forza players who are not, and never intend to be, competing at the top of the LBs.
“Get in the car and look at it and stop being lazy.”
Again, try to see more than one point of view…
I run a 15 lap race, share the replay, and tell my friend to check out the action on Lap 9. He loads the replay, lets it run while he grabs a cup of coffee, comes back and ---- what lap is it on? No timing info, no lap info… Ah, he should get out his stop-watch and “stop being lazy.”
I watch a friend’s replay, and try to see where he’s losing time. I check the lap-over-lap timing for turns 3-4-5… oh wait, there is no timing information… Ah, again, guess I should get out my stop-watch and “stop being lazy.”
You’re a smart guy Worm - figure out that there are lots of different people who play this game in lots of different ways.
- Don
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LOL, no I don’t watch my own replays unless I am tuning and that is pointless now.
I am not being derogatory, he isn’t on the level that a fraction of a second matters so he doesn’t know what it actually means. If he did he wouldn’t argue on it, there is a reason the really fast guys don’t frequent the forum. It’s because they are outnumbered 10 to 1 on the forum and anytime something is said they are fighting off 10 people that don’t know what in the world they are talking about or what matters to the next guy. The people only want to know what matters to them.
Simple fact is people want to get better off the back of someone else. Ask a question, do something, that’s what community is for, it isn’t for being an anonymous name piggy backing off someones replay. That’s all this boils down to and it’s by tuning, watching throttle inputs, shift points, anything to get better. I find it hysterical the same people like Don and others clamoring for this and saying it matters because they use it for something different (improving lap times) is absolutely 100% no different than using it to copy a tune. In the end you are still copying what someone else has figured out or achieved by watching what they do.
There is no checking needed, everyone here is talking out of both sides. Saying “it’s a game” and junk like that. If it’s just a game and I or someone wanting to protect what they spent time figuring out, tune or lap, then why are you even here arguing if it is just a game? Why do you care so much? Seems you care about attaining a higher rank as much as the guy who worked to get there does to stay there.
Get over yourselves, all of you.
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