Newbie Question: Let's Talk About Corners

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Hi all,

I’m a very new Forza player–Forza 6 is my first one, in fact. Prior to this most of my experience with racing has come from games whose titles prominently feature the words “Mario” and “Kart.” So while I’m having a lot of fun learning a new kind of video game racing, there are some bedrock things I haven’t quite grasped.

For now I think the biggest thing is how to corner well. I’ve heard some of the theory: how you want to take the corner as straight as possible; brake hard in, accelerate out; and so on. But I’m not always sure how this looks in practice.

Let’s consider the Sonoma short circuit. I found turns 6 and 7 particularly difficult. (I think I’m getting that right. What I’m calling turn 6 is a curve to the right, the first one with a huge shoulder; 7 is the next turn, that comes around a red-painted zone on the ground.) When playing the track, I drove a basically unmodified Mazda RX-7. I felt I consistently had to brake sooner for these turns than the assist line was indicating. I know that when you have a straightaway into a turn, you want to “use the whole track,” so for example, going into turn 7 you would ideally be along the left side of the straight so that you could move into the right-hand turn. But when I start over there, I repeatedly found I couldn’t stop in time to make the turn and would go careening into the barriers.

On a similar note, it’s common to find myself passing other drivers on the inside of a turn, even when those drivers appear to be following the suggested line exactly. Clearly this means I’m cutting the corner closer than they are, but I haven’t played enough yet to figure out whether this means I’m braking sooner, later, or just approaching at a different angle.

Some of these things will no doubt come clear through experience, but I’m curious what others’ perspectives are. I apologize for the vagueness of my question–this stuff is so new to me that I’m not even completely sure how to talk about it yet–but I would be grateful if more experienced drivers could talk a little about “cornering theory,” how they decide when to start braking for a turn, and so on.

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Don’t worry about the driving line as its just a basic guide, the breaking line is also a guide and i find with basic set up cars you need to break earlier then it tells you to make corners in this version of the game as the grip levels are very wrong.

just keep driving and maybe join a league to race other humans and you will quickly pick up tips that will help you improve, you will also enjoy it more against other humans than the pesky AI

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You will probably get a lot of good advice, but here is a start: It’s easy to think of the brake as on/off. Practice easing on the brake and easing off. As you turn in, you should be coming off the brake gradually so that between your turn-in (when you start to turn) until the apex, you are coming off the brake. You should start accelerating at the apex, but roll on the throttle gradually. At the apex, you are still in the corner so do it gradually. You should be full throttle only when you have full squared up on the straight. Getting a smooth transition on and off both the brake and throttle will do very good things for your lap time. Remember, the smoother you are the less you upset the car and the less it’s weight is moving around. The means less demands on your traction budget, which allows you to carry more speed.

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The braking line is a good guide but sometimes it is wrong and either you go into a corner to fast or to slow. The best way is to just drive and learn the tracks. You will get an idea when you need to break etc. Don’t leave lobbies just because you are miles behind like some do (not saying you do), just use that time to practice breaking slightly later. I often try and get into corners without going hard on the break. I just keep tapping the break to slow the car and try and corner as smooth as possible and then accelerate out as fast as you can.

Just keep racing and it will come to you. Practice really does make perfect on racing games. Good luck and welcome to Forza :slight_smile:

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Thanks, everyone, for your views and advice. Right now everything I learn is a big piece of the puzzle, so each tip helps a lot. For example, the realization (as KumQuat suggests) that you can feather the brake, rather than slamming it on when you see the red arrows, has saved me a lot of time in corners.

Maybe we could talk about something Amp brought up, traction. When I hear my tires squeal, this means I’m almost out of traction and starting to slide, right? (One of the pre-race tips tells you to “listen to your tires,” but doesn’t explain what to listen for.) I’m still getting to the point where I can intuit the relationship between turning, braking, and how much grip I have, but in general it looks like hard braking, especially when your wheels aren’t straight (i.e., in a turn) causes skid. However, there are also times when over-accelerating causes you to lose traction; I especially see this when I’m off-course and am trying to correct, or when I come out of a messy turn and am trying to straighten out. Does this sound about right?

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Cars are different and they handle differently. For example, an all wheel drive will give you better traction than a rear wheel drive. Try adding some racing tires that should help with the skidding. There’s whole other part that I don’t want to jump in as it might complicate the whole situation but that’s tunning your car. By adding or reducing weight to the rear of the car it can have a significant impact on the way the car handles. I personally don’t listen to the tires as I’m braking. If you’re exiting a corner just how you feather your brakes when you’re coming in try and accelerate slightly slower. Maybe hold the trigger halfway down and when you have a straight line after the corner you can floor it.

When you’re off course try yo straighten you car and just drive it slowly back onto the track, especially true if your car is rear wheel drive.

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Here is a link with helpful information

http://www.drivingfast.net/techniques/racing-line.htm

I read over a couple of the previous posts and i agree with a lot of them. You’ll gain the experience as you continue driving and use more cars. Each car is different for example the heavy american rear wheel drive cars if you’re hard on the braking or on the acceleration you might spin out. Another option to start with is use cars with better handling and braking such as TOURING CARS. Glad you’ve come over to simulation racing. See you on the track.

← Add me on xbox one if you want to race.

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That link is great. Simple explanation!

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If you want to know exactly what is going on with traction, hit your d pad and open up the hud. I thinks its the right arrow on the d pad. It will bring up a view that looks like four circles that keep getting bigger and smaller. Each circle represents one of your tires. The circles get bigger as that tire has more traction and smaller as it has less. If the circle is green, it has more traction than it needs and is gripping the road (a good thing) A circle is yellow or red when that wheel has less traction than it needs and the car is sliding. Pull that up and look at what’s going on. compare that to what you hear and what you are feeling through the controller. You will learn exactly what is going on.

One thing that you will notice is just how dynamic available traction is. The circles get bigger and smaller instantly. This is because the amount of traction a wheel has is affected greatly by the amount of force pressing it down on the road, either weight or aerodynamic downforce. As the car moves through a turn, weight is transferred from the inside of the turn to the outside. Braking and acceleration throw weight forward and backward and these forces are often at work simultaneously weighting and unweighting each wheel, thereby causing them to gain and loose available traction.

You will notice that as you go along, you may be dragging one or more wheels and still not slide out until you’ve lost all of them. If you loose the two front wheels, you understeer. If you loose the two in back you oversteer.

All of these are affected by chassis tuning, but that’s a whole art unto itself.

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As far as the braking goes, stop using ABS immediately. Your stopping distance is greatly increased with on. Next go to a speed way track and practice 100-0 brakes without locking the tires up. And take note of how far you’re pulling the trigger in assuming you’re on a controller too. The sweet spot is about a half a trigger pull. You’ll hear some chirps from your tires, but no the squeal and their will be no smoke. If you can get that down you are going to get a whole heck of a lot faster. And I find that most of the time I can start braking after the start of the red brake line. It’s super key to not panic and pull that trigger in farther when you make an error though. That will be the toughest piece. And while you are new and before you form long term habits try switching to manual w/clutch. Swap the hand brake and clutch buttons. It makes it easy. Welcome to Forza!

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Super helpful advice from all of the people before me, but there’s just one more thing that I want to add that would have saved me a lot of trouble (and frustration) if I had known when I first started out… Almost all of your braking should be done before you ever start turning in. Trying to turn in under hard braking puts too much stress on your front tires causing a ridiculous amount of understeer. You would be surprised at how much more responsive your car is when you’re off the brakes. To that end… it works the same way when driving a front wheel drive (and most stock AWD) car where trying to accelerate at the apex will cause you to plow off track during your late turning stages. So just like the guys before me said: control is key. I often run endurance races and if my fingers and hands aren’t sore by 20min, I’m not running as fast as I can. Don’t sweat the mistakes either, seasoned racers (I’ve been playing since the original Forza) make TONS of mistakes too. Even the same ones we’re helping you to avoid. WELCOME TO FORZA

Edit: like some of these other guys said, hit me up if you want help practicing lines or figuring out where braking spots are. Or even if you just want to have a good old fashioned track day

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Oh ya I forgot that part. Good call K70RA13! The same can be said for throttle control. At the apex you’re basically coasting maximizing turning grip. As you begin moving the stick back to center you are rolling throttle on. A fun way to practice this I found was taking an old school muscle car and taking STM and TCS off. They’re powerful enough to slip but not so powerful that you’ll be spinning out. And train your finger how to roll that throttle on as you exit. It takes a little practice, but is not to difficult to get good at. Like some of the guys have said, you’re going to make errors. Don’t sweat it. When I’m hot lapping I’m trying to squeeze every millisecond out of a car. So I am making all kinds of errors in the first 6 laps or so. Then I have a good idea of what I can get away with on that track and that’s when I start turning in those quick times. Feel free to add me as well, and I can help you out in game too.

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Madbrand got the nail on the head for you. Turn abs off if you want to stop quicker. It will take you a while to get used to having to be progressive with the trigger but you will soon find yourself able to brake far later that you would imagine, especially in the wet!

You’ve been given some great advice on here so far so I look forward to seeing you climb the leaderboards. If you ever want to race, or even just lap to try and pick up some lines I’m happy to help.

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Just want to add here: It is better to brake early then too late. Also you would rather go into a corner slow and come out fast rather than vice versa!

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Hi all,

Thanks again for piling on the superb advice. I keep fiddling with various settings, taking a few test laps, and then trying something else to get a feel for how different settings and setups impact the car.

I really appreciate the somewhat technical perspective you’ve offered. Although my understanding of how cars work is rudimentary so far, these things strike me as the “grammar” of racing–principles that will form a foundation for good habits on any track, with any vehicle.

I tried turning off the ABS, and as you say, my experience was that I could stop much quicker. However, the text on the Assists menu in the game says of the “ABS Off” setting: “In this state your braking distance will increase…” It’s true that (for now, anyway) my quickest stops also lock up my brakes, and tapping them to slow down takes a little longer. But it still doesn’t take longer than trying to stop with the ABS on, so this statement seems strange to me.

You’re right, I’m using a controller. When I pulled up the telemetry view, I spent a while watching the gas and brake percentages on the readout as I pulled the triggers. I feel like there’s a noticeable dead zone on the inside of both triggers; I saw 100% gas/brake register when I felt I had definitely not pulled the trigger in all the way. It’s hard to tell for sure, but I’d say the trigger was maybe 70-80% pulled when I saw 100% on the readout. Have you (or anyone else) narrowed the dead zone on your triggers, or is this just something you get used to over time?

I’d avoided this partly because it would get me into gearing, which is something I still don’t know much about (even in real life I drive an automatic). But no doubt there is help. (On that note, arubio315, the link to Drivingfast.net is invaluable and I’ve spent a lot of time there.)

Having said that, how does the manual shifting (no clutch) option work? Is it basically the same, just without the need to hit the clutch, or does the car still behave differently from manual w/clutch?

Thanks–you’re right, finishing my braking before turning in has made a huge difference in the amount of control I have in turns. I’m finding that, depending on the corner, either no input, or a very, very light touch on the gas, is ideal.

I’ll be working on these tips when I fire up the game next. One pointer of my own that I’ll put out there for anyone who’s in a similar position is to just take a deep breath. There’s a part of me that keeps saying, “I’ve got all this great advice! I know what to do! Why can’t I make it work!?” But then I remember the game’s only been out for ten days (notwithstanding Ultimate Edition owners :slight_smile: ), and that acquiring a new skill like this is a slow-burn thing.

Finally, I’d like to thank everyone not just for the advice but for the extremely warm welcome. It’s great to find an online community with such an open and accepting vibe, and I look forward to driving with you!

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