So I’ve been away from FM for a while recently got FM7. There’s a lot to like. The graphics are second to none. Maybe people complain about tracks but I think the selection and quality is excellent. Car selection is great too… Chaparral 2J is the only one I really miss.
But there is a but. I am not looking for an arcade. I was hoping for a true SIM. And while FM7 could never be called an arcade, I don’t consider it a SIM either. My reasons:
Why can I not see the gap in seconds - meters make no sense and are completly meaningless.
No tyre choice. Rain or dry one size fits all. That’s just ridiculous. I want to choose my tire compound. A true sim should have this feature
While i don’t care about eye candy pit stops (which FM7 has none) i would like to choose how much fuel to take on when pitting to save time. And again, tyre choice please.
Fm7 tyres seems to be magic- work in all conditions.
Fuel and tyre saving in long races is poor. Short shifting and coasting before braking makes almost no difference. I find the only way to stretch a stint is driving on 70-75% throttle for a few laps.
And now for the big question- does project cars 2 adress those issues? Is it a better SIM for those looking for a true racing SIM?
Forza has always been a simcade,not a true sim,i’ve heard good and bad about PCars2,more bad than good.Maybe others can chime in on that.I use a TX wheel for FM7 and love it.Wet tires are added automatically so that’s why no wet or dry.I also read PCars works better on pc than x box.Assetta Corsa is the way to go if you want sim.
Forza Motorsport games were not designed to be true sims and have never claimed to be true sims. If that’s what you’re looking for in Forza … you will be disappointed.
in pc2 wet tyre comes automaticliy when its raining you can chose reguler tyre but whats the use of it? so forza does the same without the possibilty of using reguler tyres.
gap in metters for me its better than seconds so if it was in seconds some1 for sure would post something about why its not in meters.
sim racers was allways my main passion for gaming since simbin gtr2 for the pc. iv allso put a lot of hours on iracing,asseto corsa,project cars 1 on my pc and project cars 2 on my one x.
and i must say fm7 with all asisits off in terms of gameplay is a simulater or at least for the most of it.
in terms of regulations,qualifying,fuel consamption, it is not and if this are the things that matters to you you shoud try ac or pc2.
Doesn’t PCars2 have a demo? Or was it just a limited time free trial… I know I played it, and it was vastly improved over the first game but still not fun to play with a controller. And performance on the XBOne was a bit sketchy.
I’ve always labelled Forza a “Sandbox SIM” and let me explain what I mean by that. Out of the box, the game is quite rusty in terms of the SIM feel, but because Forza has a lush upgrade and tuning system and because Forza allows you to change the base physics system (Power, Front Grip & Rear Grip Handicaps), you can indeed get a SIM feeling experience. If you take real world data and plug it into the game, you can get a very realistic experience. It’s just that you have to put the time and effort into doing the research. With my realistic tunes, they take about a week of research each and the amount of data you have to go through is phenomenal, but you can get there with Forza. Like I said, it’s almost a Sandbox SIM, you can make the game as aracdey or SIM like as you want.
What forza doesn’t do right is SIM features. Short shifting and lifting and costing does indeed save fuel in forza, but it’s not pronounced enough. Forza uses and "all weather tyre2 which is realistic for road cars, not so much race cars. You can see the gap in feet which is actually a lot more accurate and takes far less coding than seconds. Forza does lack in SIM features yes.
In the end, you can make the driving very simulated, the features so lack but other stuff does make up for it, content, weather conditions, graphics etc etc.
AC is most likely your best bet in terms of a true sim experience. Especially the PC version which has many more apps available. The console version is somewhat stripped down but still very good. Having said that, I keep coming back to F7 because nothing compares with the content. The ffb weakness in F7 is overstated IMO. AC has much stronger effects but I find myself tuning them down anyway because they are just too much. The race lines in AC are much more realistic but we could spend all day criticizing one game compared to another. In terms of online, I gave up on that months ago regardless of the game due to idiots and/or rammers.
You should experiment with other games and form your own opinion but don’t be surprised if you find yourself returning to F7. It’s strongpoints outweigh it’s shortcomings.
From what I remember, in AC the wheel feels heavy and precise, and in Project CARS the less effects the better control you have over the car. Excessive noise makes you account for things not really there and hurts your driving. I think RealFeel in rFactor was the sharpest I have regularly driven, but the mods are mostly usermade so you have to take the modder’s word, which for mods like Enduracers is probably not the best course of action…
The problem with going hard core sim is that it is no longer accessible or approachable to 90% of the players. On the console it is striking that balance between sim and accessibility and making it fun. Sure there are things I would love to see in the game but it is still pretty good. I gave up on Project Cars because you could not drive the cars with a controller. It just was not fun. Forza is fun. Horizon is just a little too arcade for my taste. Sure people like it and they have fun playing that and that is ok. Arcade=casual player=larger audience = higher sales numbers. SIM=smaller audience=lower sales numbers.
An update on my “quest”. Since I’m very keen on a hard core SIM… I got borth AC and PC2. Did few laps on AC but so far spent a lot of time on PC2. Both PC versions. So far I’m impressed with PC2. Graphics are quite good but obviously not as good as F7. Gameplay is very good. Pit strategies, full control of tire and fuel load choice. Difficulty is off the scale! In F7 I races on pro or (sometimes) unbeatable. Here i have AI set on 60% and it’s a touch and go… after a lot of practicing. I also like the practice, qualifying sessions and formation laps and propper rolling start following it. If you gain a place illegally race director instructs you to give it back. Very cool. AC looks good but I haven’t played enough to comment much. Hopefully I can in next few days. So far it looks like the map is not available in AC HUD. If so the game will be much harder, but I think I haven’t looked for it hard enough since that would be a bad ommision. I love the customisable HUD in both games. Fully customisable. You can choose what is shown and where. Nice. AC is seriously lacking a good track selection though. At least it has Spa…
My main observation so far: PC2 is seriously difficult. Made me realize I’m not as good as I thought.
@ shawn029: you’re right, I can already see myself going back to F7 quite often. It is very good… once I get over my issue with meters vs seconds lol.
Ps. Thanks for everyone’s comments. It’s nice to be on a forum where no one has a know-it-all rage tendency.
Iracing is hands down the best when it comes to organized racing and track accuracy. Due to the accuracies of the car and the track there is not a ton of content (still plenty but like 1/4 of forza cars. Even tho there is the entire nascar schedule and updated cars. And probably most expensive of the bunch.
R factor is arguably the most accurate physics and tyre model. Many of the pro teams use a modded version of r factor pro. R factor is mostly run by modders. So the content is unlimited. However the accuracy is dependent on the modders.
Other options are race room racing experience. Good sim, reasonable prices.
Automobilista - another good one that I have limited experience with.
Pcars2 - meh, it works I think the physics and tyre model are ok. Car selection is good and they are trying to emulate iracings race system but poorly. Good ffb system.
Forza is the farthest thing from a sim when compared to any of the ones. Best car selection, least accurate everything terrible race system with no penalties. But if u like just driving around it will do.
Least accurate everything? Sonoma in Project CARS and Forza is like night and day.
rFactor is no longer run by modders. When the new company took over from ISI, there was a shift towards the addition of more licensed content. Mods are still abundant of course, but hit or miss. rFactor 2, due to its terrible mod package system and late addition of DX11, has in fact become quite niche. It does not have the strong community of iRacing nor the content of Assetto Corsa.
Console racers are actually starved of good sims. I’d even recommend F1 by Codemasters. All we have otherwise is Project CARS 2 and Assetto Corsa, both inferior to their PC versions, so I’m not interested. Forza Motorsport does not intend to simulate full race weekends, and it should stay that way, because its pick up and play aspect is second to none.
Hot-lapping, time attack and rivals is what Forza is strong very strong at. F1 by Codemasters is good but the tracks are awful. Look at Spa for example, it’s so inaccurate and feels so wrong it’s laughable. Same goes for some tracks in PC2 like as you said, Sonoma.
Agreed with everything apart from a couple of things. Project Cars 2’s force feedback feels downgraded compared to the original for me. Forza has the least accurate physics but the tracks are perfect.
Evan, just curious if you have tried iracing? Forzas “laser scanned” tracks are absolutely atrocious compared to iracing. I don’t know what it is. They have made every track super smooth, and the scale between the cars and the tracks is completely off. If you want accurate tracks I don’t think there is a single sim/game that compares to iracing. There is a reason that when many pros want to learn a track they use iracing. With that said I know that the setups are odd and sometime require some massive changes in order to feel even remotely like real life. Also, on numerous occasions I have races with rubens barichello, lando norris, nikki thiim and know there are quite a few nascar pros who race regularly like dale jr for example.