Im talking about the force feedback settings. Tuning will effect how the FFB feels, including the aligning forces, to a point. Which is expected behaviour. But tuning doesn’t change the fundamental way the FFB functions. To have the new system set up effectively, centre spring is needed. And as I keep stating, it is a dynamic effect in both Forza Horizon 4, and Forza Motorsport 7.
I am not sure what point you are trying to argue right now. Either way, you really need to read the information on the support website for setting up wheels/ffb.
Just for reference I ran both the GTC4Lusso Rivals at Seebring and some Freeplay laps in the new 599XX Evo at Mugello using your settings that you posted most recently and with the current FFB update. Both felt awesome. The 599 especially. With the TX the FFB feels dead on over bumps and is very easy to control.
Thanks Mechanical, I am using a ts-xw trustmaster and I found your settings to be good start to fine tune myself after, again thanks and please continue with posting you variations. Much appreciated.
Another excellent update to the FFB on the Thrustmaster TX458 wheel at least. I gave the same cars and tracks a back to back run on Forza 7, PCARS2 and AC last night and this latest Forza FFB is the, in my opinion, the best FFB we’ve ever had in Forza and getting much closer to the more dedicated racing simulations.
The video earlier in the thread with the WR Touring Car time with no wheel FFB is truly impressive but I remember wheels before FFB and I wouldn’t want to play games that way, even if it is faster. I hear rumours of many games top leaderboard times being set this way but there is more to racing games that leaderboards for me.
The Huracan GT3 at Brands Hatch feels great, truly intuitive to drive - once the tyres are warm. The same track effects, bumps, lifting and ability to feel the level of grip is in this latest FFB just as it is in the other games. Use the same wheel setup and take away the individual visual cues to which game you are playing and most gamers wouldn’t be able to tell which game they were playing. The endless arguments over the slightest differences in the wheel feedback are pointless. Some days my real track car has awful feedback too if the track is cold, the tyre temps are wrong or they’ve resurfaced or any other number of other factors. Get a car well dialled in and it’s fun. I was also slightly faster in the Huracan within 3 laps, making wheels more competitive once again imo.
For me a car like the Megane RS250 at the Nordschleife feels exceptionally close to the real deal. With the car slightly modified to match the real RS265 Trophy power, tyres and suspension settings it is possible to match the real world car time of 8:07 in an entirely realistic way. The way the wheel feels when the car is understeering in the tighter corners is spot on. Those few degrees of movement the rear of the Megane has to help rotate the car is also there. The corner and peak speeds are about right too which is impressive to me.
I’m delighted with the improvements over the past few months and look forward to racing regulations arriving.
Most of all I’m looking forward to feeling how Forza drives with the Fanatec Direct Drive Wheel with Xbox One compatibility, that could be a real game changer.
I’ll see a few of you usual wheel using suspects on the leaderboards, thanks as always for the great sense of competition over the years it’s a lot of fun.
I actually don’t want the game to suggest a wheel rotation to use. Before they do that they need to fix how much wheel angle the car has.
For example, if the game suggested 360 or 390° for Formula 1 cars, which is an accurate DOR to what they use irl, it’d feel off in forza because F1 cars in Forza have 30° wheel angle which is way too much compared to in real life. Before Forza implement an actual full soft-locking system, they need to give us the correct wheel angle for cars.
Read my post again Evan, I never said I want the game to decide for me. I said I want T10 to remove the stupid sensitivity slider that they replaced the wheel rotation setting with in the PC version of FM7. Other wise, those of us on the PC, will only have half of the new system working for us; and we will still be FORCED to change DOR manually every time we change car. Via the driver software, which means Alt/Tabbing. (or the on hardware settings in the case of Fanatec wheels), when the game should dictate to the device driver what DOR to use; based upon the in game users settings.
Still, as I pointed out in the past. I would still prefer to have automatic wheel rotation soft locking, but they need to add that option with an override, for users like yourself who dont want that.
Just to be clear. The Wheel rotation setting was removed in the PC version of FM7, and replaced with a sensitivity slider. They are not the same thing.
What we really need, in both the Xbox one version, and the PC version. Is DOR and sensitivity adjustments, with zero disparity between versions.
I see both sides of this and am not sure how I feel. Having played FM7 or FH4 primarily for my racing fix I don’t remember if I ever played with a soft lock…probably yes but didn’t really notice but didn’t know what to actually look for. I hope they give us the option to apply or disable the soft lock as that way you will have no issues however you prefer it.
**** Ialyrn, I have not had to use the slider you speak of as I am Xbox, but hope the PC players get it improved as well.
Soft lock is used in Assetto Corsa, Pcars 1/2, and Dirt Rally. If you have played any of those titles, you would have experienced it; but not necessarily noticed it. Its a system that just works, and requires zero end user input. What it does, is allows you to set your wheel to its maximum rotation. With my T300RS, that is 1080° of rotation. The game then soft locks that rotation, based on what vehicle you are using. Such as a BMW E30 M3, as an example. That should be near the 900° mark, so all the available wheel rotation should be used. The game would tell the wheel to use that amount of rotation. If you then jump into the Renault Formula 1 car, it should be much closer to the 340° mark. The game would tell the wheel to use that amount of rotation, with zero input needed from the end user. Unless they wanted to disable said system that is, which is why it would be important for T10 to add an override in; if they ever go the automatic soft locking route.
With regards to the new system T10 are going to add, in order to allow us per garage car adjustment of FFB and wheel rotation. It is hugely important that they removed the disparity they have added between the Xbox and PC versions of the game, in regards to handling of the wheel rotation. Other wise those of us on the PC, as I stated before, will only have half of the system available to us. And we would still be forced to manually changed the DOR every single time we change from a road car, over to an f1 car. Without been able to use upcoming feature to store our desired DOR, and the game handle it for us.
The latency definitely seems to be corrected. I’m having to readjust to it for my turn ins. The ffb hits quicker and I had c been compensating for the latency dead zone. Not it hits quicker and I’m missing my apex targets. Still, much better.
Still only center spring in the menu, btw nice if they fixed that. Not complaining though. This is nice. Catching and recovering from mistakes is so much easier now.
This is why I think the latest update of the FFB on the TX458 wheel is superb. I made a video of the Renault Megane RS250 (upgraded to RS265 specification, using the real suspension settings etc but also keeping the car within Forza C Class and Modern Hot Hatch homologation) vs the real life RS265 Nordschleife record lap set by Larent Hurgon in 2011.
For me this is as close as it can be. The track surface feel is transmitted through the wheel well, the corner and peak speeds are almost identical. The hand movements on the TX458 wheel to rotate the car mirror the real driver almost perfectly for 99% of the lap. I've been lucky enough to drive this Megane and a few others similar (eg R26.R and Trophy R) with Renault at the Ring and the wheel feel feels as close as a game possibly could to me.
These are cars I can actually drive on a track often open to the public/trackdays so I don’t have to listen to some race driver or other commentator tell me how real or not the game is, I can make my mind up for myself. It’s truly close now. I’m not sure what else people would want from wheel feedback, truthfully I think this is about as much detail as any hot hatch type car can give through the wheel. The other forces people are looking for are most likely sensations through the seat, chassis and brake pedal in a real car.
Thank you Turn 10 developers for continuing to listen to your loyal wheel users and improving the feedback. I hope you are working with Fanatec on those fancy new Direct Drive wheels.
Sure, the most important settings are as below. This is for the TX458 Wheel on the Xbox One X, no assists, normal or sim steering seem to work fine.
Usual 0-100 deadzones
Vibration 35
FFB 60 (I vary this a little depending on the car, sometimes with the TX458 wheel car FFB is just to heavy)
Aligning: 80 (again can be raise or lowered slightly if too light/heavy)
Mechanical: 120 (lower if there is too much kick back through the wheels when the brakes being to lock up)
Pneumatic: 100
Road feel: 75 (I prefer the cars with some road feel, I’m looking for immersion as much as fast times)
Damper 0
Spring 0
Rotation: 900 (lower for specific faster cars like the race cars/F1 etc)
Linearity: 50
For me this gives a wheel that has a realistic weight and feel, it’s easy to turn the wheel through corners and there is enough road feel and weight to tell me what is going on. I know quite a few other Forza players who prefer more wheel weight (higher aligning, mech, pneu & FFB) but I don’t like to fight the wheel.
Also I’ve tried other peoples setups with lower vibration and road feel and yes it is smoother and sometimes a few 10ths faster but for me this lacks the tactility and imperfections of real track driving. I like to be quick but I want the game to feel lifelike too. I fully respect others will disagree and say faster is better, that’s fine FFB is about as subjective as it gets.
I haven’t tried the latest update on the PC yet but will post the settings up if significantly different.
Much less subjective than many make it out to be. According to an experiment at Stanford University an experiment on building FFB system for a drive by wire wheel in real car. This is what is the most important aspects.
This is quite true as to why it was deemed by many that Forza has continuously had poor ffb. Returnability was an issue (self alligning torque). On center feel (deadzone), linearity (an underrated factor by many in the sim world), and effective torque stiffness (the mechanical and pneumatic trail feeling at various speeds). Effective torque stiffness throughout the study is something they work towards being a linear change as well. There is not much that is subjective honestly there right wrong and artificial. Yes, all of it is artificial, but there is nothing along the lines of road feel etc. It all refers to feel of different forces in the car whether it be mechanical trail, pneumatic trail, jacking force etc, but they all get lumped into one category and dampened into steering feel. They also weight them on importance based on various studies such as large radius constant torque type corners, weaving etc. Also, for all those wanting direct drive for the high force it was determined by this study that 8nm is the max force needed for ffb irl cars with drive by wire. None the less its an interesting study.
On page 39, where these bullets are, just below is a flow chart of the driver inputs and relevant forces feeding back into the wheel. Jacking is among them. Interesting that Forza has almost no jacking, even at 7 caster…
I’ll agree to disagree (or admit I don’t know exactly what you mean o.o).
I had no problems with the previous FFB using those settings, except the latency, which I won’t install FM7 to try again until the tires are changed to feel more natural.