Need an ADVANCED tuning guide please

ive been tuning on forza since forza4 im very serious at and very compettive but i need help on my tuning i just cannot get it right i just cannot do it i just cannot get to tht next level that some of my friends are at and i will refuse to use others tunes it feels wrong i feel very good knowing a tune i have spent my time on is working wonders so please someone help me out an now please have it be in high detail bout everything every single thing in the tune setup menu especially the GEARS and how changing what could possibly do what in return and also how to use the telemetrys while testing also if there are math equations for these things PLEASE DO SO i have no problem with math an i feel it is more exact then just (feeling for it) in my opinion

GT:zBoNy

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I suggest checking out some of Stella Stig’s open source tunes and tune guides on Youtube.
Links to all his videos can be found here: http://forums.forza.net/turn10_postst2976_Stella-s-open-source-tunes---Build-and-tune-videos.aspx

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Check these threads out…

http://forums.forza.net/turn10_postst221_Tuning-Guide.aspx

http://forums.forza.net/turn10_postst6455_Universal-Tuning-System.aspx

http://forums.forza.net/turn10_postst7220_Drows--Guide--For-Beginner-Tuner.aspx

http://forums.forza.net/turn10_postst13959_Camber-Tuning-Techniques.aspx

http://forums.forza.net/turn10_postst13698_Test-Track-Air-Field---Is-Actually-Very-Good-For-Quick-Tune-Build-Testing.aspx

http://forums.forza.net/turn10_postst5760_ONR-RoadRunner---Damping-Formula.aspx

http://forums.forza.net/turn10_postst5719_ONR-RoadRunner---Tyre-Pressure-Formula.aspx

http://forums.forza.net/turn10_postst13277_True-or-False---Tuning-Statements.aspx

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thanks RelaxedPRkid this helped me alot just one thing is there something about fine tuning gears cause i have been searching for days and keep getting final drive im using the 13GTS Viper as of now and everyone one knows 5th and 6th gear especaily 6th gear bogs very badly and it is one of it biggest disadvantages im trying to get the gear ratios where the 6th gear is practically non existent and 5th is the final gear but i am able to still obtain the top speed needed (190-198mph) i know it can be done but no where explains this and i am running out of ways to search this topic

NEVER use more gears than whet you need - learned that from GRD…

Now set your FD to get 5th as your final gear and distribute the rest pretty much evenly, then, tweak on a per track bases to ensure you are shifting prior/past turns. Go to LeMans Old Mulsanne for adjusting the 5th/FD. Get 1st gear as strong a start as possible with proper grip (i.e. minimal wheel spin). Lately I prefer the Sports trans and just set the FD as needed for certain tracks. I’ll check that Viper out later. Good luck!

Honestly Zbony i would put the stock transmission back in that car if that is an S class car. I run stock trasmission and im currently trying to get my car in the top 10 on bathurst. I keep getting to a 2 min even lap but i always scrape a wall and dirty the dang thing. Go back to stock and get some more power is my suggestion

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Great idea Johnson! +1

BTW, what track are you running (or, want too) this Viper?

Thank you for the advice johnson it is very nice that you have taken the time to read my plea, cause you are a very respected tuner around my area and Realxed i was wanting to run it on bathhurst i am racing with very old friends very compettive and one of them is PTP Lives On and he has a dang Honda nsk and he is seriously half a second faster than me i get 2.5min and he get 2.4 and it drives me nuts cause the parts he beats me on is the striaghts cause simply the 5th-6th gear one the 13gts Viper bogs so damn badly thats it is seriously a game killer for me but that is the only track that he car can barely manage to beat me on and road america along with long beach most other tracks i can beat him by seriously half a second

Darn! Anyway, if it is the straight that is killing you, I would not worry about your in-between gears – just focus on that FD gear. Since you seem to have issues with 6th & 5th, did you try 4th gear as the final as well?

zBoNy – check this out…

http://www.drivingfast.net/car-control/rev-matching.htm

i have red through that link you have posted and that was a very nice piece of information that i never even knew about i have heard of powerband an such but never really knew what it ment not even forza in game descriptions said anything about it really and now i think of it when i am going into a turn i do use engine brake kinda alot and that probably is killing my time and when i shift i get about a little bit over the redline cause on the viper the red line is [Mod Edit - Abbreviated profanity, profanity and profanity that is disguised but still alludes to the words are not permitted - D] huge lol and maybe i just need to just stay within the powerband now that i know about an not go over the redline so much and i will try to tune the final drive alot tonight an try to make this car better cause it is one of my favorites thank you for taking the time to helping me with this frustrating topic of mine its nice to see that the community is really thriving still, and if you like add me on xbox one my GT is the same as it is on here and i race with alot of people and we do private lobbys so no having to edal with randoms that just crash all day lol

Depending on Peak HP and Peak Torque, at times, it’s OK to get into the “red zone”. A couple of my PB’s got into that area. Also, do not downshift too much (i.e. ex. If you think of going from 5 to 3, go to 4 instead and see how it works). I am still learning all of this, yet, since I have been getting some good advice want to make sure I pass it along (pay forward). Good luck!

p.s. Now you intrigued me, gotta get into my garage and check that Viper. What’s your time at Bathurst (hmm, I might have missed it, I’ll check your posts on thread)?

i my best time on bathurst was 2.3/2.4min but i comepletly scraped the tune lol and sarted a new one but funny thing is, is that it is going pretty good but now im having a problem with the rear end kicking out and it driving me nuts caus ethat is making me do a 2.6/2.7min lap time lol but if you want we can party up on xbox and chat about this on there cause i do need another person working with me on it two heads are better than one lol, i play with 15 some people and they all cant tune for [Mod Edit - Abbreviated profanity, profanity and profanity that is disguised but still alludes to the words are not permitted - D] lool cept ptp but i only race him so everyone just bugs an bugs me for me to tune this an tune that so they can do better an cant do it them selves cause they dont like to learn an take the time like i do to me that what is the most fun thing about this game its more of a battle of who has the most reasearched and collected information than skill really

If that viper is still experiencing lots of oversteer try these steps.

Raise Rear Camber
Lower Caster
Lower rear tire pressure
Lower rear sway bar
Lower rear springs
Raise Rear Rebound
Lower Rear Bump
Lower Accel Setting
Raise Decel Setting

Those are the things that i would be looking at to fix the issue. Now dont change all of them at once but do little changes and see if it improves the way the car is feeling.

OP:

Ive just started taking my tuning up a notch, as someone said earlier, stella stig offers a lot of open source tunes so you can go and edit them as you see fit.
Honestly, I found Moneyman300 youtube channel to be very helpful as far as tuning the handling. Goes through a summary of how to build a base tune, then how to diagnose problems and where to look to fix them, then has an in-depth look at each different tab in the tuning panel and explains the affects aswell as some of the forza physics based stuff that just works when in the real world it shouldnt (high camber with moderate caster, high rebound low bump etc).

From there I found I had a much better understanding, now when I read the descriptions in forza or looking at TGWormburner’s tuning guide here in the forums things started making a lot more sense.

Anyway, as far as Gearing goes, I too struggled to find any good tips on it other than final drive.
One thing I did find which im yet to test, is that the race trans comes with usually really bad default settings, using the forzatune app you can generally get a good reading on setting the gears within your powerband.

Ill explain how I do my gearing, whether or not its right or not Im not sure but its worked semi-decent for me, anaged a 10.4 1/4 mile on the rivals Executive drag (best time was 9.4 I think). full second behind but I only spent 15 minutes tuning and it was my first ever drag tune.

Anyway, I find theres usually 2 or 3 points in the final drive where your 0-100 drops to a low point. Ill use the cortina that I just tuned as an example. I could get a 9.287 with final drive set at 3.2, it then went back up to low 10’s then dropped back down to a 9.384 again at 4.1.
The 4.1 Had a lower top speed, by about 10mph but it seemed to be accelerating through the 50-120mph better (unfortunately you cant get a dino reading on that even though its where you spend most of a race).
On to tuning the individual gears. I usually take my car to the indy oval and get the max torque RPM (Start in 1st gear then shift up to 5-6th, bring up telemetry by pressing down on the dpad, note the torque, at a certain number it will top out then start to decrease again dont do this on the corners or the number will jump all over the shop. That peak torque number you need to remember then repeat the process, this time when the torque reaches that maximum you want to make a note of what the RPM reads, you have to be quick and generally I will take several readings before settling on a number to the nearest hundred.
This number will be your peak torque RPM. remember it.
I usually go for an acclereation over top speed, so ill use the benchmarks that forza gives me and adjust my 1st gear to give me a nice low 0-60 and 0-100 number.
The second gear, I will do the same and then again for 3rd, however I will make sure that these gears start at or above my peak torque RPM. Generally my second gear will be right on the peak torque RPM and third will start to climb away from it . I will also keep an eye on how tall or short the gears are (how long that line is) They generally should be pretty even, or getting slightly smaller as you climb the gears. 4th gear and beyond you will probably no longer be able to get a reading from the 0-100mph benchmark as you should be well and truly past 100mph. The only benchmark you could use now is the top speed but maxing that out now will throw the balance and youll find the gears will drop down way to low in the later gears and youll never reach them.
I find its best to use the start of the first 3 gears in the graph to draw a nice imaginary curve that sort of straightens out, 4th, 5th, 6th etc should then be adjusted to fit on to this curve while still maintaing similar lengths.
From there, take her out on the test track and give her a whir, if you find when you shift that the rpm feels like it drops too much, then bump that gear up some more and adjust the rest accordingly, usually only in small increments. I find I dont normally need to make any major changes at this point, usually just need to fine tune 2nd gear to shift a little better.

When it comes to your Viper and the overdrive gear bogging down, My only suggestion would be to follow the above but whenever you want to get a benchmark top speed adjust 6th gear as close to 5th as you can to get a reading then re-adjust back to fit that curve just in case you do find yourslf needing to shift to it… and so it looks cleaner on the graph.
Finally, if your not reaching that top speed your after but your shifting through gears smoothly, try shifting your final drive to widen the ratio, you should be able to squeeze plenty more top speed since you tuned to accel to begin with, when you move the final drive it will shift everything evenly but the top and bottom of the gears will stay the same so you wont be falling out of that power band and having boggy gear changes.

NOTE: Most of my tunes have pretty steady torque and HP curves and usually run stock aspiration or centrifugal sc, Using something like one of the rally engines or a twinturbo with a steep torque may change how this all works, i couldnt tell ya at the moment…

And thats it… it could be completely wrong and I would honestly LOVE for anyone to point out anything Im doing wrong because I sort of figured most of that out by myself, theres no hard science to back my method up other than the peak torque RPM.

Quick alternative method, use the Forza tuning App to set your gears, it also uses the peak torque rpm to determine gear placement but it also uses some fancy maths stuffs to set individual gears that still fit within the powerband. Unfortunately I havent seen the formula behind it as it considers displacement, drive tire size and aspiration in its calculations.