What I do not understand is, why has MP changed so much from FM5 to FM6. I have had a lot and I mean a lot of good MP lobbies in FM5. There were a few I would have to quit. But in FM6 I do not even go there anymore. I have said this before, I Pre-purchased FM6, could not wait to play it, played 3 MP lobbies, and did not touch it again until Jan. 2016. What a shame. What I do not understand is there are no penalties for rude and wrecking racers in the game. None. Track cutting and contact, any contact, should be penalized. All I race now is private and career. And monthly challenges if there are some.
The lobbies changed because Forza/T10 didnt. Many of the people that really care about racing and want to actually race and had skill left. When each iteration of the game gets progressively worse people will find something more suiting to what they want.
I know people don’t like to hear about sales numbers, different times, different consoles yadda yadda but to me its pretty simple.
FM6 - 1.52m
fm5- 2.16m (and a release title to boot, given out with the console)
Fm4 - 4.62
fm3 - 5.55
fm2 - 4.06
fm- 1.05
Pretty easy to see the trend. Sales numbers are supposed to either raise or have a horizontal trend. Not a rapid decline. Now I expected their to be a slight decline from fm4 to fm5 because a lot of people werent going to rush out and buy the new system, but that also should have been offset in sales numbers by the fact that the game was bundled with the console. Fm6 to me in unexplainable other than the fact the people took a stand and are done dealing with a stripped out game. by the time fm6 came out the “new” console was now 2+ years old, so you would imagine that the game should have been on par with atleast fm2 knowing that it was the second edition of the game, so even less exposure time, and the same amount of time since the console has been released.
Thoughts?
Thank You for your reply. I have been playing since FM1 and never has it been so bad. It would seem by the numbers, the chance of getting in a bad lobby would be reduced. I have been pursuing other forms of entertainment lately, to be honest.
Quite the opposite, the chances of getting in a bad lobby are increased. There are less lobbies and less racing enthusiasts playing forza as they have moved on to something that promotes proper racing.
Or maybe im reading into it too much and there are far less casuals playing and only the hardcore fans are still playing… but by the other communities i am involved in and here interest in forza from even the most dedicated players is waning.
No, I don’t think you are. Like I said, I have been playing for a long time and I have been pursuing other forms of entertainment (as in racing). I just was figuring with more racers, there would be a chance of more good racers. I can tell you I was mislead by the Drivitar thing. I thought that is why you drove for the first races of FM5, so you could set the tone for match ups. But I was wrong, it still puts the crashers in with all the others.
I believe the sales numbers for FM5 were due to it being aN Xbox One release game. We all know how many questions there were about the Xbox One and it’s compatability with wheels and headphones. Add to that the known facts about how bare bones FM5 appeared to be, based on information released by Turn 10, prior to launch. A lot of folks immediately jumped on the PlayStation band wagon, and some upgraded their PC’s and went with iRacing.
After release, there were initial issues and bad reviews from long time players. That in itself would have had an impact on sales. But the cost of an Xbox One console is probably the one thing that is still affecting sales numbers. Recently, the cost of an Xbox One began to drop. By Christmas it will probably be at a more manageable price point.
I believe we will see sales continue to grow with FM6, and peak right before the release of FM7. But, there will be a lot of new players and we will experience growing pains. All we can do is try to foster good will and encourage good, clean racing.
Let’s hope that FM7 is able to address some of the complex issues that are making multiplayer so difficult.
There were more than 80 Million Xbox 360 consoles sold prior to the release of Xbox One.
While Microsoft has refused to disclose Xbox One sales numbers, it is rumored that less than 20 million units have been sold. Sony claims to have sold more than 35 million PS4 consoles.
It is reasonable to believe that Forza 5 and Forza 6 sales are directly related to the number of Xbox One consoles sold.
Peace
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Its not possible to have moderators in every single lobby
Its just unreasonable to expect it too
Something needs to be done even if ghosting and /or disqualifying repeat crashers
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public custom lobbies is the answer to moderating. No reason not to have both hoppers and host controlled lobbies. It was ridiculous to be removed in the first place. I would love to see a paid server like battlefield where I have control of it.
Not in every lobby no, but the wreckers in the back of their mind would think," what if there’s a mod in this lobby," and also, if they would have full lobbies, there would be less lobbies to cover
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If you have watched any of the twitch streams with johniwanna or mechberg you would see there’s even stupid people on their races that deliberately crashing
They get booted and somehow they are back the next week doing the same thing
So even having mods in the lobby doesnt stop them
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I agree that random appearances and some anonymous appearances, where instant justice could be done, MIGHT make griefing too risky for some (maybe for a lot). But it won’t eliminate it all.
The problem isn’t as much intentional wreckers joining lobbies to cause mayhem. It’s the overly aggressive drivers who bully their way through the field, spin people in corners and punt people off the track to better their position. It’s tough to police because there is so much of it going on.
Every time someone pushes a slower car off the track, or punts them through a corner, they create another angry driver, who will now be doing the same thing or worse. It’s the “faster” (in their mind) and entitled (because they think they are better) who are creating griefers with their overly aggressive driving.
I don’t know the answer, but bumping back isn’t it. Random moderation might help. I would welcome it.
Peace
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Even a short notice that flashed on the screen when entering notifying us that certain actions could result in lengthy bans would be an improvement. I can afford a thirty second splash screen wait, wouldn’t ruin my day. As it is theres no notice that its not a free for all with consequences so naturally people think they can get away with anything.
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I agree to that as well. Some people may not know, and a visible waning notice MIGHT help.
I try using PMs and offering to help people race cleaner and explain how it works. Sometimes I get good responses, sometimes I don’t get any response at all. Often, the response is negative or insulting. The other night someone asked if I was “gay” because I suggested trying a clean race. Then he proceeded to punt me in the next four races.
Sure, I saved the replay and did what I should. But he was there the next night and just as aggressive.
Now, I will keep to myself. I won’t be offering any assistance any longer, because it made me a target.
I really like the idea of roving moderation. I doubt it will happen, but I like the idea.
Peace
Yeah, I don’t ever go into game chat to tell someone off because that just makes you a target, and it basically means they won
Unfortunately, some people will ALWAYS have their heart set on doing dumb things, we just have to deal with it, and report them when we can.
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I agree that it’s unreasonable to expect in game moderators. There are just too many lobbies and they are going on 24/7/365. Maybe, if they charged a monthly online moderator fee. What would you say to an additional $10 a month? Would that be fair? I’ve seen the talk about how things are going to kill Forza, but none of them would do it quicker than requiring players to pay a monthly fee for multiplayer game moderation.
I don’t know how old you are, but comments like " but T10 can’t get their head outa their you-know-what to do something like that" are not a real positive way to approach everything. And, yeah, you do it a lot.
Are you a game developer? Seriously, do you have any idea what is required to maintain a game the size of Forza? To constantly second guess the people who do is poor form.
Peace
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Why don’t you join a clean racing website ? I host a website with a group of friends and it’s just over 1 month old now and we host several events and social lobbies and your free to do the same and invite people in and have some of the best racing of your life and it doesn’t matter your level either see
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What he said!
I was completely fed up and ready to pull the plug on online racing completely till I stumbled across these guys. Granted they are mostly out of my league but some of the events they run like the Handicap series lets all levels get in and mix it up and do it without elevating stress levels. Sure theres a bump or a rub now and again because its racing, but its ALWAYS followed by an apology. Once you get known as a clean racer theres always people around to lobby with and run everything from E-X and have a blast doing it.
Granted their are huge problems with the public lobbies and no doubt T10 is aware of it but they are either unable or unwilling to do anything about it. Hopefully they are busy trying to come up with a solution. I wouldn’t expect much until the next release. Work with what you have in the meantime.
^ i get that you are spamming and trying to grow your site. I went the only race in private leagues route before but there is a major problem to private leagues is schedule. People shouldn’t have to race at only with the league at the 1 available time per day. The developers should come up with a method to better seperate the skilled from the unskilled and the wreckers from those who race.
Example: Iracing has licenses Rookie-d-c-b-a-Pro, these are determined by your safety rating, this is constantly fluctuating to reflect your current level better. Safety rating is determined by # of corners without incident. The lower the license level the easier the cars are to drive similar to what forza already has in place. Incidents are on a point system so not all incidents are valued the same, off track (what would dirty a lap in forza) 1X, hitting a wall 2X, spinning 2X, Car contact 0X (very light contact where noone has further issues) and car contact 4X. There is also an incident limit of 17X per race before you are disqualified. This system is not without its own faults but for the most part it seperates wreckers and overly aggressive drivers from the rest by keeping their Safety Rating lower not allowing them to drive in the faster cars. On top of this, their are also cut track penalties fairly strategically put throughout the track on the corners with the worst offenders. This is not implemented like project cars where it is automatic but from when it happens it determines how much time it believes you gained using the always there split timer and makes you slow down that amount of time. It basically starts a clock from when it happens and gives you say 30 seconds to serve your penalty which allows you to choose a safe place to do it as to not disrupt traffic.
This works in conjuction with Irating. After your safety rating determines your license level when you join a lobby if the lobby has more than 1 full lobby the lobby splits depending on Irating. irating is very similar to the trueskill ranking in which the leagues in forza currently use. The major difference being between the way forzas system works and the way iracing works is iracing’s races are set on a schedule similar to private leagues however they are much more frequent than a private league could run. Usually the furthest races apart are 2 hours. So the system is able to determine what lobby you belong in once you sign up for the race (at any time within 30 min of the race) Whereas forza tries to run rolling lobbies. This means that if someone of a lesser skill joins a lobby with 14 much more skilled drivers and then later another 10 equally skilled drivers joined the lobby, 1 of these people that actually belong in this lobby will be relegated to the lobby with lesser skill, or starting their own new higher skilled lobby. This process could repeat until the end of leagues is open due to the way the system works.
Also as i said before in another thread. Forza aims to be the content kings, they wont the most content and they want to allow freedom. This coupled with the short races on ever changing tracks discourages skill. This is another way that forza differs from many of the other racers. The way the league system works using iracing again as an example as they have the best system for this imo, is that they predetermine the leagues similar to forza, for instance thier is a GT3 league, a prototype league, an f1 league. The car is run at 1 track per week with the league running for 12 weeks, and the schedule decided ahead of time by the community. You are never obligated to race in any certain car or all 12 weeks of a league. It can be used similar to hoppers in forza, pick the car/track combo you want to run and join the races. However it is encouraged to run as much of the season as possible by having season standings as well as participation credits. They offer in game credits towards additional content for racing 8 weeks of a season in and car classed above rookie. It also is encouraged that you focus a season on 1 car because (at least mine) pace will suffer if you didnt put in ample practice. Practice sessions can be done with others. with no worry of safety rating or irating changing as they are not counted. These practice sessions are always available. The other thing worth noting is the shortest available official iracing races are 25min long.
And if all of this doesnt work to encourage clean racing, they have a protest system attached to every race. When the race results come up after the race, you simply click the protest button, send them the dvr’d clips or replay snipits and they will determine the punishment, from anything as minor as coaching them as to what they are doing as wrong if they are unaware to permanent bans. They are messaged to let them know that they are under protest so when they ban someone there is no confusion as to why and they also ban them from their forums so there arent 100000 threads of “why waz I baned”. Sure for some of the casual players it may not be a big deal to be banned, they can just sign up again for $5 under a different name. But once you own content (that isnt cheap) you dont want to be banned. Would be similar to here, if you own vip and season pass, you are fairly invested into the game and wouldnt want to be banned not allowing you to use any of the content except on an even larger scale as the members with 100% of the content have spent around $700.00 for all of the content over the years.
Despite what people think, there are things the developer can do without policing every lobby, you basically set up a system where the lobby polices itself. Then instead of having the public lobbies run by the crazies you now have pushed them into a corner to race with eachother or to go into their own private lobbies.
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I do something like this in free play to teach and reinforce myself to drive clean. If I make contact 3 or 4 times (depending on severity of the impact), I instantly end the race, effectively DQing myself. It teaches me to be more careful and choose my opportunities wisely, as well as improve my judgement and spacial awareness.
A system like this implemented in Forza would be very beneficial to teaching players who want to learn clean racing, while allowing other players who like contact to remain playing together.