Leagues with locked assists, any word from Turn 10 about it?

[Mod edit-WSD- Profanity] Elite League and almost no assists should be allowed there. Maybe allow braking lines or ABS, but definitely no TCS and STM. The nutcases at the top League could get around with no assist whatsoever.

I would love to see more variety in the rule set from the Leagues.

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I guess where to start with that, is do you think assists help, or hurt players?

If I had to race against people, and I could pick their assists, I’d turn them all on. I’m confident I could beat the best drivers in the game if all their assists were on. That is not true with assists off. I’d get killed.

Assists trade ease of play with performance.

I surely will never complain about people using assists…in fact I encourage it.

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It’s a mixed bag. Last week in the A class Leagues it certainly helped a lot the players that rely on the TCS to keep the car traction, since you could get the Maserati Birdcage, Caterham, or any other old and light and upgrade de engine with little to no worries about the tires or suspension.

On R or P classes I agree that the assists would get more in the way than to offer any kind of gain.

I dunno, maybe let people run how they want and add a filter for people running like assists just as they’re supposed to filter for like driving styles and aggression.

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Maybe with more data coming from the players, that’s how the Leagues will sort players out in the future, but it would be nice if a Dev could talk about it.

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maybe only the assists you use? no tcs or stm? you realize those come on real cars right even in real life? when is the last time you seen a braking line in real life. vvv racing got a preview copy a week before even the ultimte people. he did a test in the zonda on alps and was faster without stm or tcs. assists are not why people are beating you. if you want to be really good work on making yourself better, tweek you tune maybe. dont try to knock people down or make them worse.

but lets assume you are correct for a second. you are not complaining about getting hit, and implying those assists are why people aren’t crashing out of the race. would you really rather they wreck into you? because thats the probable out come of you being right.

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That would be great since I use no assists!

I’m not sure what’s your point anyways. Sure, STM/TCS is available in a lot of cars, and also not available in a lot of other cars. As I wrote before, I don’t think there is any real gain in performance in R or P classes, but there is a real gain in the lower classes where you could land a 1,000bhp monster with 1960s tires in B Class. And I’m not complaining about the assists per se, only in the high level Leagues.

Other valid option would get the assists based on the cars allowed. Exemple, last week Touring Cars should have no TCS, STM or ABS, since the actual cars don’t have those. A 70s Formula 1 League could require manual with clutch, since those cars actually required it.

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I see a braking line in real life all the time… … maybe I have been playing this series of games too long. :slight_smile:

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It’s not clear what you’re driving at here, but it takes more skill to negotiate a racecourse without assists, and less skill to do so with assists. So if the players at the top of the league are getting through fast without assist, it simply means that they’ve spend more time practicing without assist and have accomplished. So I really don’t see what you’re talking about here at all, as it makes no sense!!!

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Sorry, english is not my first language.

But my point is basically what you wrote, “it takes more skill to negotiate a racecourse without assists, and less skill to do so with assists”, in lower PI classes you could upgrade engine parts without wasting PI on suspension or tires, and rely on the TCS/STM to keep the car in control.

I see no problem at all on the Hoppers, but the Leagues theorically should list the players with similar skill. Al least that was what I understand when T10 revealed the Leagues.

Assists have always been a difficulty setting, rather than simulation.

There are way too many types of cars, that have any combination of features to correctly model. I’ve never driven F1 cars and the like, but I’ll bet TCS works much differently in an F1 car than it does in a Corvette. As cool as it would be to model all the different types of systems various cars have, and the effectiveness, I’m sure time could be spent in other areas.

Assists are basically a performance/ease of driving trade-off. I’m fine with that.

If I get beat by someone, and its because they are running assists, that means my skill level isn’t high enough to benefit from me not having assists. I’ve raced with folks that run 4-5 seconds slower than me… “its cause I don’t use any assists” they’ll tell me.
Without trying to be a dick, they simply aren’t good enough to run without assists if thats the case.

In the A class leagues, I got caught with TCS on. I was running it for some crazy HP car, but when I was in my alfa…it was horrible. At first I couldn’t figure out why I couldn’t put power down out of the corner. I was easily slower.

I say…let people race how they want to race, in most all cases, the better driver will win.

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Fair point on modeling all the cars accordingly, but limiting through the rules of the League should not be difficult at all.

If we ever get a F1 League (God I hope not, too fast for me), the guys at the Elite level and above should have the skill to control it without TCS, as an actual F1 car goes.

About this, anyone know any real top-level racing league that allow TCS and STM?

I agree with the OP There should be a Hardcore league. Or lets hope at some point a no assist group in all divisions. I would also like to see at some point no upgrades as well like a cycled production option.

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A truly hardcore league would have almost no one in it. If you look at the leaderboards and sort by hardcore times, many of the tracks have less than 30 hardcore times set and the time difference between 1st place and 10th place is massive. I’ve set hardcore times on a few tracks, but for multiplayer I prefer having the line on. I’m a bit more consistent and slightly less likely to hit anyone when I have the line on.

Anyway to the OP, forcing assists off really wouldn’t do much other than maybe annoy a few people that use them. There are some high HP/low grip cars that are much easier to drive with tcs on, but for most cars it just makes them slower.

A thought I had…and have often when talking about this kind of thing, is that there is a solution for all of this.

There are SO many different ways to play this game. We cannot have hoppers for all this. Some people want to race with no assists, others want cycled production, only race on GP tracks, only wheel users, only cockpit view, classic cars, FWD cars, etc etc.

If we had hopper for all of those, it would be so spread out, it would be worthless.

Wouldn’t custom public lobbies be the perfect solution to so many problems? begs T10

People in the game could meet others and race how they want to race.
Most people that play Forza aren’t on these forums, T10 needs to put an interface into a game to get people together that like to race the same way. I met so many folks in FM4 like that, and it was great.

If you make a league that has no assists, MANY people will not play. The same is true for any specific rule set they put in place. There are no wrong ways to play Forza, you just gotta find the people that like to play like you - and that’s very hard to do with the current structure of multiplayer.

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Same can be said for any class race there sir. Not everyone wants to race E D C or B class. Some dont care for R P or X… Its a horse a piece

All I play with is the driving line, manual with no clutch, and normal steering (if those even count as assists - clutch w/sim steering on a controller sucks IMO)

While it is true what other posters have suggested - that the GOOD drivers that play with no assists are faster than they would be if they were playing with assists - it doesn’t hold true for average or bad drivers.

The average and bad drivers are going to be much better with their chosen assists on because they don’t know how to control the car with the assists off. While it’d be nice to “level the playing field” against these drivers so-to-speak by forcing them to drive with no assists, the standard multiplayer hoppers are already a total smashfest and that’d make it ten times worse. It’d be a better way to determine everybody’s true skill as half of the field would probably spin out, but they’ll take the good drivers out in the process - is that what we really want?

Do you want a new seperate league with hardcore/simulation settings? or do you want the higher leagues to not allow assists? I’m in the top league and I play with abs and tcs, removing that would make the game less fun for me, and I don’t care if my competitors play with all assists on or off. If people want to play simulation races with special rules and no assists they can always make private races/leagues.

In my opinion there’s far too few reasonably quick and clean players online as it is and restricting leagues because someone uses one or more assists is both unessesary and unfair, as for “realism” forget it. Even though some race series don’t feature TCS and ABS they provide the driver with multiple assists that don’t feature in games. Engine maps, brake bias adjustment, diff adjustment and so on. Cream always floats so simply tracking results and temperament for long enough should eventually group the right players together.

Anyway, how far would you go in sub dividing an elite league? Perhaps you should have to run your own tune and paint as well. Just let players enjoy the game the way they like to play it and if they’re good (with or without assists) then that’s fine by me.